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Re: How to handle Heading under Section

for

From: Steve Faulkner
Date: Apr 30, 2018 1:00AM

+1 to Birkir section should only be announced as a region if it has an
accessible name.
Ensure that all content is contained a landmark, but only use landmark
elements as macro containers.

This may be helpful
Easy content organisation with HTML5
<https://developer.paciellogroup.com/blog/2015/09/easy-content-organisation-with-html5/>

--

Regards

SteveF
Current Standards Work @W3C
<http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2015/03/current-standards-work-at-w3c/>;

On 30 April 2018 at 06:36, Alexander Karelas < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:

> Here's my page, in case you'd like to look at it, to better assess the
> situation: https://forums.baza.gr
>
> The sections (with headings) that I'm talking about are all of the 4
> <section> elements on the page.
>
>
>
>
> On 29/04/2018 09:09 μμ, Birkir R. Gunnarsson wrote:
> > My opinion (not hard truth, just opinion) is that ARIA landmarks are
> > most useful when describing visual structure (fixed sections) of the
> > page, whereas headings describe the structure of the content.
> > so landmarks are highly useful for separateing page header, main body
> > and footer, also useful for marking fixed sections of the page like a
> > stock ticker (complementary) navigation menus (account navigation,
> > left navigation) etc. They are an equivalent to seeing sections of the
> > page at fixed locations on the screen.
> >
> > I also think landmarks quickly lose their usefulness when you have too
> > many of them, I'd say a rule of thumb should be no more than 5
> > landmarks for a simple page, maybe 8 for a massive page.
> >
> > In your case, without seeing the page, I don't think you should assign
> > landmarks to sections of content already identified with headings. It
> > will increase verbosity with very little actual benefit.
> > a region landmark without a label is not supposed to be a landmark. If
> > a screen reader presents one as such, file an issue with the screen
> > reader vendor.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 4/29/18, glen walker < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> >> NVDA does let me turn off landscape announcements but it turns it off
> >> everywhere. I'm not sure if I could turn it off just for a particular
> >> site. So in theory you could ask your users to change their screen
> reader
> >> settings to accommodate your design decisions.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sun, Apr 29, 2018 at 10:17 AM, Jonathan Cohn < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On the other hand Screen readers probably could be adjusted so that
> they
> >>> would not double speak when the label of the section just entered is
> the
> >>> same as the element with virtual focus.
> >>>
> >>> -Jonathan
> >>>
> >>> Best wishes,
> >>>
> >>> Jonathan Cohn
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 2:57 AM, glen walker < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> A <section> <https://www.w3.org/TR/html53/sections.html#the-section-
> >>> element>
> >>>> element has a region role <https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#region
> >
> >>> by
> >>>> default, and a region is a landmark. While it's good to have bypass
> >>> blocks
> >>>> that a screen reader can use, it might be overkill to have both a
> >>>> heading
> >>>> and a landmark. The problem is you might have some screen reader
> users
> >>>> that like to navigate by headings and others that like to navigate by
> >>>> landmarks. Hearing the heading twice is not ideal, but is certainly
> >>> better
> >>>> than not being labeled.
> >>>>
> >>>> Without knowing more details about your situation, my initial reaction
> >>>> is
> >>>> that the <section> is not needed. If you can't prevent the <section>
> >>> from
> >>>> being generated, then you might want to consider removing the landmark
> >>> role
> >>>> of the <section>. You can do this two ways:
> >>>>
> >>>> 1. If a <section> doesn't have a label (aria-label or
> aria-labelledby),
> >>>> then most screen readers ignore the region as a landmark.
> >>>> 2. You can set role="presentation"
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Sun, Apr 29, 2018 at 12:18 AM, Alexander Karelas <
> >>> <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> My page has 4 sections.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Each of the 4 sections contains a big heading.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> My question is:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Should I label the 4 sections? If so, I would ideally like to label
> >>>>> them
> >>>>> with the 4 headings (with aria-labelledby, maybe).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> But when I do that, NVDA reads the heading twice when I press 'h' to
> >>>>> browse the headings. It reads it once because I entered the section,
> >>>>> and
> >>>>> it reads it once more because it's reading the heading itself.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Is that considered annoying? I mean, when the user presses 'h' 4
> times
> >>>>> to browse the 4 headings, they will hear each heading twice after
> each
> >>>>> keypress.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> How do you think I should handle this?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thank you,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>
> >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>
> >> > >> > >> > >> > >>
> >
>
>
> > > > >