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Re: Role Application issue

for

From: Brandon Keith Biggs
Date: Jun 25, 2018 5:43AM

Hello,
You are going to need screen reader users to test this out, it sounds as if
you are trying to take on Google Drive.
What Google Drive does is keeps the screen reader user in edit mode, but
shifts the focus between different elements on the page.
It uses editable fields for writing text, aria menus for menus, grid for
spreadsheets, and dialogues for dialogues.
If I were you, I would reduce the amount of time needed to test and build
this by using AccDC:
https://github.com/WhatSock/accdc
AccDC is a library that has pretty much all the widgets you need in the
coding Arena. What you would do is combine the menu with the different
application widgets like the spreadsheet:
http://whatsock.com/tsg/Coding%20Arena/ARIA%20Data%20Grids/ARIA%20Data%20Grid%20(Dynamic)/demo.htm

Note that the desktop on the PC is very badly designed for a screen reader
user, and it would be much better if you only had a linear menu rather than
a grid with random icons all around the screen.
Google drive allows people to switch between grid view and list view which
is something you should copy.
Google drive does not allow for first letter navigation which is something
they should allow.
They also don't allow for custom keymappings which is also a major downside
to GSuite products.

I would say build your product combining widgets from AccDC and then have
screen reader users test it. Otherwise, if you try and build your own
widgets, you would need a screen reader user to test every few updates to
the code to insure the UX is OK (just like you have sighted users looking
at how the display looks).
Thanks,


Brandon Keith Biggs <http://brandonkeithbiggs.com/>;

On Sun, Jun 24, 2018 at 11:24 PM, Nikhil Mittal < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> We have various components in our widget area. Some of the *few* are listed
> below
> 1. Desktop
> 2. File Explorer
> 3. Control Panel/ Settings
> 4. MS Office (Applications - Excel, Powerpoint, Access, word, Outlook)
> 5. Internet Explorer
> 6. Start Menu
> 7. Task bar
> and others.
> Its kind of a personal machine inside a web browser.
> Office component will support everything including panes, dialog boxes,
> file menu *every *feature that office supports.
>
> We have provided role application because inside app Area we have our own
> keyboard shortcut to interact with the application.
>
> Also when page is loaded then depending on the parameters provided above
> widgets are loaded. There are more then 7000 scenarios for this.
>
> So it is not possible to actually find which will be the focused element
> when page is loaded. Also sometimes inner component loses focus by calling
> blur and then track key down on body for keyboard handling. So even if we
> track the first focused element how can we capture the keys when focus is
> moved in between to body by a inner component. Also considering the
> complexity and vast code of widgets and components it is not possible to do
> any change related to this in components. So looking for a common solution.
>
> Regards
> Nikhil Mittal
>
> On Sun, Jun 24, 2018 at 2:23 AM Birkir R. Gunnarsson <
> <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>
> > The application role forces all screen readers into "application" or
> > "forms" mode. All key presses are routed through to the webpage. In
> > some screen readers it is not even possible to force browse mode with
> > focus inside an element with role="application".
> >
> > Check out the role definition at:
> > http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#application
> >
> > NOte in particular the situations in which the application role should be
> > used.
> >
> > 1. Make sure no standard structure roles (listbox, grid, menus etc.)
> > match the patterns you want to implement.
> > 2. Remember that non-focusable content inside an application role area
> > is not accessible to a screen reader user unless you associate it with
> > a focusable element or place it inside an element with role="document"
> > (even in that situation you may experience accessibility support
> > issues, better to put the interactive portion in an application role
> > than the static portion inside a document role).
> >
> > So if your whole page is an interactive widget, e.g. a spreadsheet,
> > with no static text, or at least static text that is no more than 3 or
> > 4 words and can be associated with a focusable element, you can use
> > the application role (note rold="grid" is more appropriate for a
> > spreadsheet).
> >
> > So make sure you have no other options, use the application role on
> > the smallest part of the page possible. Good luck.
> >
> >
> > On 6/22/18, Brandon Keith Biggs < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> > > Hello,
> > > From what I understand is you want one area that allows the user to be
> in
> > > brows mode and another area that requires the user to be in edit mode.
> > > This is OK, but if you are making something like a word processor,
> there
> > > are only two widgets, the menu and the edit area. You can add other
> > panes,
> > > but that's pretty unusual.
> > > Can you please explain why your design does not fit into the menu and
> > edit
> > > field widgets? Thousands of options sounds like a very extensive menu
> to
> > > me.
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Brandon Keith Biggs <http://brandonkeithbiggs.com/>;
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 12:14 AM Nikhil Mittal <
> > <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> The widget in appArea is itself an application.
> > >> It is similar to desktop application like microsoft office/ Paint and
> > >> other
> > >> desktop applications(number of interactive elements in that area
> ~1000)
> > >> These application change based on the scenario and having a fixed
> > focused
> > >> element is not possible.
> > >>
> > >> Also pressing enter as you specified in first option is not a solution
> > as
> > >> we want to pass every key from body to application unless user press
> > some
> > >> key in navigation area.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 7:28 PM Brandon Keith Biggs <
> > >> <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > Hello,
> > >> > There are two ways to interact with role="application".
> > >> > 1. Hit enter on the application element and use the application as
> if
> > >> > it
> > >> is
> > >> > another web page. You can put other elements there and the screen
> > >> > reader
> > >> > will move through those elements in brows mode.
> > >> > 2. Hit enter on the application and pop the screen reader into edit
> > >> > mode
> > >> > where all keys are passed to the edit widget inside the application.
> > >> >
> > >> > You currently have 1, but it sounds as if you want 2. 2 is highly
> > >> > discouraged unless you have a screen reader user testing UX or
> > building
> > >> > your app. Number 2 is mostly for games and is considered the
> "canvas"
> > >> > element for screen readers.
> > >> > You do the second by doing the following:
> > >> >
> > >> > <div role="application">
> > >> > <input type="button" autoFocus="true" value="Click me" />
> > >> > <p aria-live="polite" id="spk"></p>
> > >> > </div>
> > >> >
> > >> > The spk element is to send messages to the screen reader which you
> > need
> > >> to
> > >> > do in this Window, Icon, Menu, Message (WIMM) interface. Remember
> that
> > >> > in
> > >> > this mode, you need to program everything and users get upset if
> > >> > expectations are not met.
> > >> >
> > >> > You said you are making a word processor. This last option (number
> 2),
> > >> > is
> > >> > NOT what you do to make a word processor. As a screen reader user, I
> > >> > have
> > >> > expectations and workflows for Word processors. You can't get that
> > >> > functionality with programming it manually.
> > >> > Instead, use the existing edit fields HTML provides for this reason,
> > >> > such
> > >> > as:
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >>
> > http://whatsock.com/tsg/Coding%20Arena/ARIA%20Menus/
> Variation%20Standard%20Edits%20With%20Right%20Click/demo.htm
> > >> >
> > >> > Please let me know if there is some reason why you would not want to
> > >> > use
> > >> > the above widget.
> > >> > Thank you,
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > Brandon Keith Biggs <http://brandonkeithbiggs.com/>;
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 5:55 AM Nikhil Mittal
> > >> > < <EMAIL REMOVED>
> > >> >
> > >> > wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > > Hello All,
> > >> > >
> > >> > > We are facing issue regarding accessibility for
> role="application".
> > >> > >
> > >> > > We have 2 widgets one is a complex widget for which we need to
> > >> > > provide
> > >> > role
> > >> > > application as widget has its own complex keyboard handling and
> > >> > > another
> > >> > is
> > >> > > navigator(similar to toolbar)
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Now when body has the focus and user press down arrow the complex
> > >> widget
> > >> > is
> > >> > > skipped and arrow keys goes to the navigator.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > The HTML is something similar to as specified below.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > <body> <div class="appArea" role="application"> .......//Complex
> > >> widgets
> > >> > > </div> <div class="toolbar"> ......//Buttons, dropdowns </div>
> > >> > > </body>
> > >> > > Our complex widget is designed in such a way that it captures keys
> > on
> > >> > body
> > >> > > and consumes it. So as per our requirement if focus is on body
> the
> > >> keys
> > >> > > should reach our complex widget.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Providing role application on body revokes us the default
> > >> > > functionality
> > >> > > that is provided by screen reader for dialogs and toolbar.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I have created a dummy implementation of our application at
> > >> > > https://roleapplication.herokuapp.com/index.html
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Also same question has been posted at following stackoverflow link
> > in
> > >> > case
> > >> > > more details are required -
> > >> > >
> > >> >
> > >>
> > https://stackoverflow.com/questions/50798108/
> accessibility-role-application
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Any help will be appreciated as we have spent days tackling this
> > >> probelm.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > --
> > >> > > Thanks & Regards
> > >> > > Nikhil Mittal
> > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > >
> > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Thanks & Regards
> > >> Nikhil Mittal
> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
> > > > > > > > > >
>
>
> --
> Thanks & Regards
> Nikhil Mittal
> > > > >