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Re: Where Does The Idea Screen Reader Users Use Tab for Main Navigation Come From?

for

From: Reuben Turk
Date: Oct 11, 2018 7:54AM

Thanks for the info Steve.

I guess the part I'm not understanding relates to this part of the original
post:

"It's harmful when developers make an experience that is only accessible using
tab and I miss it because I'm using the arrow keys."

If the screen reader is doing the heavy lifting in terms of allowing
advanced navigation with various keyboard keys, how does the common
practice of developing for the browsers' default tab-based navigation
inhibit that?


On Fri, 12 Oct 2018 at 00:21, Steve Green < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
wrote:

> The idea that screen reader users use the Tab key for web navigation is
> very common among developers. I see this all the time when we are doing
> screen reader training or pairing with them to fix issues. It's a clear
> indication that they have never had any professional training on assistive
> technologies, which is shocking but absolutely normal. However, it's worth
> noting that the Tab key is used extensively for navigating desktop
> applications.
>
> To address Reuben's question, the arrow keys navigate within the screen
> reader's virtual object model, not the DOM. Depending on what type of
> element has focus in the virtual object model, pressing certain keys such
> as Enter or Spacebar causes a change in the DOM. This only applies to
> websites - desktop applications don't have a virtual object model so
> keystrokes are passed directly to the application.
>
> Steve Green
> Managing Director
> Test Partners Ltd
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> Sent: 11 October 2018 12:13
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Where Does The Idea Screen Reader Users Use Tab for
> Main Navigation Come From?
>
> Hello Reuben,
> There were several presenters showing how a screen reader works using
> their designs by pressing tab. This was very explicit screen reader only
> usage, so it must be a prevailing sentiment.
> Arrow keys are supposed to read line by line when you press the arrow key.
> I say "If you hit select all, and copy and paste that text into a text
> editor, that is very similar to how I see a webpage".
> Thank you,
>
> Brandon Keith Biggs <http://brandonkeithbiggs.com/>;
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 3:37 AM Reuben Turk < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>
> > Hi Brandon,
> >
> > My impression was that programming for tab navigation isn't really for
> > screen reader users but for users who use only a keyboard to navigate,
> > since browsers support keyboard navigation via tabs.
> >
> > Programming for screen readers to me is more about making sure all
> > your elements are machine readable than worrying about how a screen
> > reader moves between elements.
> >
> > I could be wrong though. I'm not actually sure how screen readers
> > handle translating your arrow keystrokes into navigation of elements
> > in the browser, although I'm interested to do some investigations now.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Reuben.
> >
> > On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 at 21:19, Brandon Keith Biggs <
> > <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > Does anyone know where the idea that screen reader users mostly use
> > > tab
> > to
> > > navigate comes from?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I've been using and teaching screen reader usage on Windows, Linux,
> > > and
> > IOS
> > > for over 15 years and I would say I press most keys on my keyboard
> > > more than I press my tab key. My navigation keys are the arrow keys
> > > and
> > browser
> > > mode navigation keys. Tab is used in select situations when it is
> > > either impossible or time-consuming to navigate using the arrow
> > > keys. If you use tab to navigate, you miss lots of information, such
> > > as everything in <p>
> > or
> > > <h*> elements. Contrary to what I see accessibility professionals
> > > saying, tab is not how I move through a page at all. In fact, I
> > > would say 90% of web pages I visit I never press the tab key. When I
> > > teach people how to
> > use
> > > the screen reader, I tell them only to use tab to navigate between
> > > form fields because it is faster. Otherwise, use the arrow keys
> > > because you
> > get
> > > much more information.
> > >
> > > Does anyone know why tab is considered to be the main way screen
> > > reader users navigate? Are there studies showing that tab is really
> > > the way
> > screen
> > > reader users navigate?
> > >
> > > It's harmful when developers make an experience that is only
> > > accessible using tab and I miss it because I'm using the arrow keys.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > >
> > > Brandon Keith Biggs <http://brandonkeithbiggs.com/>;
> > > > > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > >
> > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > >
> > > at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > >