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Re: SC 3.1.2 lang exception: proper names

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From: Wolfgang Berndorfer
Date: May 3, 2019 1:56PM

Hi Jeff,
Why do you mention web developers? We're talking about *parts* to consider
for lang-attribution. These are mainly published in the main-content, which
is mostly edited by people who are confirm with the materia, they are
talking about. So mostly they won't need no further research to know about
the language of the nemes, they use.
And if the part is inside the technical framework, e.g. as link in a nav,
the language declaration would apply to a whole webside. So this small
effort could be reasonable.
Wolfgang

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Gesendet: Freitag, 03. Mai 2019 21:07
An: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
Betreff: Re: [WebAIM] SC 3.1.2 lang exception: proper names

No. I am thinking of situations where the Web developer does not have
background information about the name Perhaps they can do a Web search to
determine the relevant nation and language.

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of
Wolfgang Berndorfer
Sent: Friday, May 3, 2019 2:13 PM
To: 'WebAIM Discussion List' < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] SC 3.1.2 lang exception: proper names

Hi Jeff,
I don’t know of any online resources about how proper names are pronounced
or should be pronounced. How they are pronounced by a speech engine, you can
test with a screen reader.
But: How they should be pronounced, is my question. And technically that
means, when should a proper name get a lang-attribute, if it’s not a proper
name of the default language.
You mentioned an older guide for newspapers. Note, that my issue is about
acoustic representation of proper names.
Did this help?
Wolfgang 

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von <EMAIL REMOVED>
Gesendet: Freitag, 03. Mai 2019 17:41
An: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
Betreff: Re: [WebAIM] SC 3.1.2 lang exception: proper names

Hello Wolfgang,
Are there any online resources for identifying how proper names are
pronounced? Content developers are bound to encounter names where they do
not know what language to use.
Years ago, I helped maintain a newspaper style guide that included some
pronunciation rules. I think this was done to help reporters be informed
when dealing with the public. We did not give this guide out.
Jeff Gutsell


-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of
Wolfgang Berndorfer
Sent: Thursday, May 2, 2019 4:35 PM
To: 'WebAIM Discussion List' < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
Subject: [WebAIM] SC 3.1.2 lang exception: proper names

Hi especially non-English native speakers,



SC 3.1.2 takes out *proper names* from the obligation to attribute phrases,
when phrase language differs from the language of the page. But why and
when?



I didn’t find any further information in the W3C understanding section or in
the archives of this discussion list, except for following small hint in the
W3C understanding section:

https://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/meaning-other-lang-id.html#meanin
g-other-lang-id-188-head

“Providing language markup on proper names to facilitate correct
pronunciation by screen readers (future link)”



So I ask You for correction and comments to my following thoughts:



1. The pronunciation of the proper name through synthesized speech should
sound similar to the pronunciation of the name in broadcast media in the
default language of the document.



German language radio stations commonly pronounce the name of English or
French persons in an English or French way. French radio stations on the
other hand pronounce any name usually in a French way. This is what
listeners are used to and should hear from their speech engine.



For example the name of the former French president, François Hollande, on
German stations always was pronounced like it would have been in French. So
no screen reader user would know, whom it’s about, if “Hollande” was
pronounced via German sythesizers. And for the English community on the
other hand: Who is the man who is pronounced in German like Shwurzenega?



So what stays from the exception for proper names in 3.1.2?:



2. Proper names need no lang-attribution, if the pronunciation between
habitual and synthesized listening only differs in nuances of accentuation
or intonation.



Thanks for input!



Wolfgang

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