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Re: SC 3.1.2 lang exception: proper names

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From: Wolfgang Berndorfer
Date: May 6, 2019 11:57AM

Hi all,
According to Patrick's interpretation, pronunciation issues of proper names like *Jean* in French / English would be an usability issue and not a problem of conformance to 3.1.2.
In response to JF I'd be interested in criteria for subjective applyment.
The SC itself only mentions *human language* to be technically determined and takes off proper names. Human language is defined as *language that is spoken, written or signed (through visual or tactile means) to communicate with humans*.
Does this include listened language?
Pronunciation, accentuation and intonation are just mentioned in the understanding section. And the pronunciation is classified as an AAA conformance SC in 3.1.6.
Seems we have to reflect the normativity of the understanding section.
So:
1) Should we consider the exception of proper names as strict and universal? (listening apprehension sounds substantially as requirement for *communicate with humans*.)
2) Should we judge the understanding section of the WCAG generally as normative or as substational interpretation or just as informative?
From a normative conformance point of view, I fear that Patrick is right with his interpretation. But from AX point of view, pronunciation often causes irritation also with proper names, especially if you are interested in politics or geography (not only with German as default language).
Regards!
Wolfgang

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] Im Auftrag von John Foliot
Gesendet: Freitag, 03. Mai 2019 21:25
An: WebAIM Discussion List
Betreff: Re: [WebAIM] SC 3.1.2 lang exception: proper names

Hi All,

I think, in the end, this comes down to a matter of subjective
determination.

For example, Wolfgang's name may or may not be pronounced with an emphasis
on the "W" sound, but perhaps a more "V" sound (Volfgang), that may or may
not matter in some contexts, but in others may have a significant impact.
(For example, in a literary context).

In other circumstances, some "names" may be more problematic than others:
for example, my name in French is Jean (J E A N), which *should* be
pronounced as (something approximating) "jzawn" (with a very soft N), and /
but certainly not "Geen". In the context of an email, no harm, no foul; but
in other contexts it may make a significant difference.

The exception in WCAG states: *Proper names need no lang-attribution, if
the pronunciation between habitual and synthesized listening only differs
in nuances of accentuation or intonation ,* and I've offered 2 different
scenarios where the first (Wolfgang) likely meets this exception, but the
French variant of my name (Jean) would likely require the lang attribute to
ensure proper pronunciation.

Finally, the exception is offering times when adding the lang attribute is
*optional*, but that does not mean that you cannot do so. So (again)
depending on the context, it remains a subjective call on the content
author: if you feel it is correct to do so, do so.

HTH

JF

On Fri, May 3, 2019 at 2:07 PM < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:

> No. I am thinking of situations where the Web developer does not have
> background information about the name Perhaps they can do a Web search to
> determine the relevant nation and language.
>
>