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Re: Browser and Screen Reader Combination

for

From: Sean Murphy
Date: Sep 23, 2019 3:50AM

That is why orgs should have an inclusiv workforce

My experience is the part

> On 23 Sep 2019, at 6:04 pm, Steve Green < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>
> That's certainly true, but user testing is substantially more expensive so not may organisations can afford it. It's also a lot more work to organise. However, it's also worth noting that an expert review will reveal issues that user testing does not, so the two are complementary. Neither gives you the full picture on their own unless you do user testing with a massive number of participants.
>
> In an expert review, an accessibility consultant methodically assesses all the content on each page to identify all the accessibility barriers regardless of the different strategies that different users take when using the website.
>
> By contrast, during user testing the participant is given a number of tasks and the test is considered successful if they are able to complete the tasks. This provides valuable insights but it is not exhaustive because the participant may only view a small fraction of the content and use a subset of the features.
>
> Steve
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of Sean Murphy
> Sent: 23 September 2019 08:55
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Browser and Screen Reader Combination
>
> A very important point to keep in mind. As you might not be a permanent screen reader user, you will not find the same is shoes or problems a user of this technology will. As these users will use the technology in a way that you might not consider. So I strongly encourage you find some screen reader users and see how they use your product and see if they have issues or not
>
> My experience is the part
>
>> On 23 Sep 2019, at 4:09 pm, Steve Green < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>>
>> You can test with any combination you like as long as you don't fool yourself or your client into thinking you have achieved more coverage than you actually have. Some issues will affect all screen readers, but others will only affect certain ones. For instance, testing with NVDA and Narrator will not find all the issues that would occur with JAWS.
>>
>> Also, screen readers do not work exactly the same on all browsers. If you test with Chrome and NVDA, you will not find some of the issues that occur with Firefox and NVDA. There might not be many, but there is no way to know how important they are.
>>
>> There are also differences between different versions of the same screen reader.
>>
>> You have to learn to live with this uncertainty because there is no such thing as "total coverage" and even 95% coverage would require testing with a large number of combinations. The two combinations you propose probably cover no more than 5%. Any two combinations probably won't cover more than 15% (less than that if you can't use JAWS).
>>
>> Steve Green
>> Managing Director
>> Test Partners Ltd
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of
>> Praunicorn
>> Sent: 22 September 2019 18:43
>> To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
>> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Browser and Screen Reader Combination
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I am very glad to know all this information from all of you, this is my luck that I have associated in this WebAIM list.
>>
>> Ok, my targeted browsers are Chrome & IE or Edge, so I am planning below combination to start testing.
>>
>> Note: Somehow my client is not willing to spend much money on screen readers and he wants to depend on Free screen readers like NVDA and other, so I am proposing below-mentioned combination since they are free. I thought of suggesting "JAWS" for "Edge" browser but due to budget issues, I am suggesting a below-mentioned combination. And I am ignoring the "IE" browser since Microsoft is not going to support this for any more and there are so many issues will occur if user use IE browser. If client still want to IE then I will go for JAWS.
>>
>> ' Chrome With NVDA
>> ' Edge with Narrator
>>
>> Please correct me is there any change in the combination.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Sreekar
>>
>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>
>> From: Philip Kiff
>> Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2019 6:45 AM
>> To: <EMAIL REMOVED>
>> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Browser and Screen Reader Combination
>>
>>> Is JAWS and IE relevant anymore since IE will be poofed out of the MS
>>> infrastructure in early 2020?
>> Mmm. Good point, but is IE really disappearing in 2020?
>>
>> Like I say, I'm not really on top of the current news on this - I only replied to this thread initially in order not to leave Sreekar in the lurch without any responses. There are many folks on this list who know considerably more than me about the state of screen readers and browsers.
>>
>> But is IE really disappearing? There are still tons and tons of intranets and custom applications that have been coded poorly and will only work on IE. Those aren't going to disappear in 2020. I thought that what Microsoft was planning on doing was somehow magically incorporating an IE 11 emulator into Edge in order to guarantee that all those crappy intranets will still work for several more years while systems folk around the world scramble to recode what should have never been coded in the first place, or to create replacements that are written in proper, acceptable standards-compliant and somewhat-accessible code.
>>
>> Aren't they even going to keep supporting IE 11 as an Enterprise product for a while?
>>
>> If both those are true, then whether you call it Edge or IE 11, there will be lots of sites that still have to work with it? But like I say, I'm not sure if all that is true?
>>
>> (And indeed, if Microsoft manages to actually pull off a modern
>> browser that can smoothly switch between a Webkit rendering engine and
>> some crazy IE 11 emulator, then someone over in their coding dept.
>> will deserve considerable praise. But I wonder if all that will really
>> be possible.... :-)
>>
>> Phil.
>>
>>> On 2019-09-20 17:25, David Engebretson Jr. wrote:
>>> Is JAWS and IE relevant anymore since IE will be poofed out of the MS
>>> infrastructure in early 2020?
>>>
>>> Just curious. Here's what I test with:
>>> Safari on IOS, and OSX
>>> NVDA with Firefox and Chrome
>>> JAWS with Firefox, Chrome, and Edge
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> David
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf
>>> Of Philip Kiff
>>> Sent: Friday, September 20, 2019 10:12 AM
>>> To: <EMAIL REMOVED>
>>> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Browser and Screen Reader Combination
>>>
>>> Hi Sreekar,
>>>
>>> The WebAIM list has a search function you can use to see if topics
>>> have been covered before:
>>> https://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>>>
>>> There have been many discussions about the best combinations of
>>> screen readers and browsers, for e.g.:
>>> Thread: Screen Reader Version & Browser Version Combination Matrix
>>> https://webaim.org/discussion/mail_thread?thread†98
>>>
>>> The best combination depends on several factors - including
>>> especially your target audience and what capacity you have for
>>> testing. Maybe your combination is right for you.
>>>
>>> Lots of folks seem to test with two or three of the following combinations:
>>> JAWS/Internet Explorer
>>> NVDA/Firefox
>>> Voiceover/Safari
>>>
>>> Phil.
>>>
>>>> On 2019-09-20 12:52, Praunicorn wrote:
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>> Kindly help me with Browser and Screen Reader combination. I am
>>>> using
>>> below mentioned combinations for my testing. Please let me know I am
>>> in right combination or not.
>>>> 1. Chrome With NVDA
>>>> 2. Edge With Narrator
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Sreekar.
>>>>
>> >> >> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>> >>
>> >> >> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>> >> >> >> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>> > > > > > > >