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Re: why is it so hard to read the aria spec

for

From: Peter Krautzberger
Date: Oct 30, 2019 2:05PM

Hi all,

To add to what James already wrote (all of which I agree with), I also made
a comment on Leonie's issue to point out that the headings in the "Note"
components create noise when navigating by headings. But as James already
wrote that kind of componnt is part of the spec infrastructure.

I would add that role=note is just a particularly unfortunate term to look
for in specs. Still, obviously specs can do better.

Best,
Peter.

Am Mi., 30. Okt. 2019 um 20:24 Uhr schrieb L Snider < <EMAIL REMOVED> >:

> Hi James,
>
> Thanks for the clarification. I wondered if that page was in the
> middle of flux, so that is why I put the 'ifs' in my message.
>
> Cheers
>
> Lisa
>
> On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 3:18 PM James Nurthen < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> >
> > Lisa,
> > We don't take that view. If the document structure is causing the
> document
> > to be harder to use then we should fix that.
> > When there is an issue with the spec please file an issue at
> > https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues
> >
> > I think where Peter was going is that the ARIA specification should
> > probably not be the first place web developers look for ARIA
> information. I
> > agree that the Authoring Practices document is more appropriate for most
> > audiences but that doesn't mean the spec structure should not be
> improved.
> >
> > In response to this email thread Léonie filed one issue last night -
> > https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1108
> > I won't be able to deal with it immediately as we are in the middle of
> > wrapping up a release and this will require scripting changes in some of
> > the supporting infrastructure but now it is logged we know that the issue
> > exists.
> >
> > Regards,
> > James
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 10:31 AM L Snider < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> >
> > > It is interesting if they take that view, and if that is why they
> > > haven't made the web page accessible...I would be curious to know if
> > > that is the case. If so, that is basically saying that devs can't be
> > > blind, Deaf-Blind or have low vision and use AT themselves, which is
> > > far from the reality...
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > >
> > > Lisa
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 6:23 PM Lucy GRECO < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > peter that does nt mean that the document it self should not be
> layed
> > > > out in a way that makes it more accessible and useable why why why is
> > > there
> > > > so many headings with the text of note this kind of brakes the hole
> point
> > > > of navigating by hedding
> > > > Lucia Greco
> > > > Web Accessibility Evangelist
> > > > IST - Architecture, Platforms, and Integration
> > > > University of California, Berkeley
> > > > (510) 289-6008 skype: lucia1-greco
> > > > http://webaccess.berkeley.edu
> > > > Follow me on twitter @accessaces
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 2:08 PM Peter Krautzberger <
> > > <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Lucy,
> > > > >
> > > > > While the ARIA WG is definitely aware that the spec's readability
> can
> > > be
> > > > > improved, the main challenge is probably that the ARIA spec is not
> > > > > primarily meant for authors but for browser and AT developers.
> > > > >
> > > > > To quote the overview at [1]:
> > > > >
> > > > > "WAI-ARIA 1.1 technical specification [...] is primarily for
> > > developers of
> > > > > Web browsers, assistive technologies, and other user agents;
> > > developers of
> > > > > Web technologies (technical specifications); and developers of
> > > > > accessibility evaluation tools."
> > > > >
> > > > > Best,
> > > > > Peter.
> > > > >
> > > > > [1] https://www.w3.org/WAI/standards-guidelines/aria/
> > > > >
> > > > > Am Di., 29. Okt. 2019 um 21:11 Uhr schrieb Lucy GRECO <
> > > <EMAIL REMOVED>
> > > > > >:
> > > > >
> > > > > > this is the page I was looking at
> > > > > > https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#note
> > > > > >
> > > > > > yes your link was easy to read much better but i never found
> the
> > > role
> > > > > of
> > > > > > note there will look more later
> > > > > > Lucia Greco
> > > > > > Web Accessibility Evangelist
> > > > > > IST - Architecture, Platforms, and Integration
> > > > > > University of California, Berkeley
> > > > > > (510) 289-6008 skype: lucia1-greco
> > > > > > http://webaccess.berkeley.edu
> > > > > > Follow me on twitter @accessaces
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 1:00 PM Colin Osterhout <
> > > <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Have you checked out the WAI-ARIA Authoring Practices
> > > > > > > <https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-practices-1.1/> as a more
> > > practical
> > > > > > guide
> > > > > > > to authoring using ARIA?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Colin
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 11:46 AM Lucy GRECO <
> <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > hello: i just was sent a link to to a part of the aria spec
> and
> > > i
> > > > > have
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > say that was a reely horrendous task to read and i never did
> find
> > > > > what
> > > > > > i
> > > > > > > > needed.
> > > > > > > > wile looking throu the page i saw at least 4 heddings at h4
> > > that
> > > > > said
> > > > > > > > note and i stoped looking at 5 h5 that also were labled
> note. for
> > > > > > crying
> > > > > > > > out lowd can't we make this stuff better to read
> > > > > > > > Lucia Greco
> > > > > > > > Web Accessibility Evangelist
> > > > > > > > IST - Architecture, Platforms, and Integration
> > > > > > > > University of California, Berkeley
> > > > > > > > (510) 289-6008 skype: lucia1-greco
> > > > > > > > http://webaccess.berkeley.edu
> > > > > > > > Follow me on twitter @accessaces
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Colin Osterhout
> > > > > > > Website Coordinator, University of Alaska Southeast
> > > > > > > <EMAIL REMOVED>
> > > > > > > 907-796-6576
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > For fastest response for your web needs, please email
> > > > > > > <EMAIL REMOVED> .
> > > > > > >
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