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Re: Question regarding live caption

for

From: Christine Hogenkamp
Date: May 25, 2021 1:00PM

Hi Björn,

When you say "Their web-based software allows to change the font, font
size, colour etc." first thing I think of is whether the captioning
software works similarly to one of those overlay website plugins type
interfaces that is supposed to automatically add accessibility
functionality to the existing page regardless of the original code. Because
if that's the case, then that could be the cause of your user's issues,
that the end result is just not very useable/accessible if it's being
auto-generated.

Do you have a link handy to the captioned video page in question?

*x*
*Christine Hogenkamp (She, Her)*
Front-end Developer

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On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 2:00 PM < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
wrote:

> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Björn Fisseler" < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 18:32:35 +0200
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Question regarding live caption
> Okay, thanks. I think I didn't make my point clear enough. The question
> wasn't about who benefits from captions, but whether the captions itself
> would have to be technically fully accessible.
>
> The participant who identified as being blind said that the captions, who
> were presented to her using a web browser, weren't accessible to her using
> a screen reader. We asked a service provider to do the live captioning and
> they used their own specific web-based software. Their regular clients are
> people who are deaf or hard of hearing. Their web-based software allows to
> change the font, font size, colour etc. Text is presented as plain text
> using HTML paragraphs. But for example, you cannot change the reading order
> (text scrolls from bottom to top), which can cause problems in case you use
> a screen reader. Also the content refreshed regularly, which could be
> announced to users of screen readers.
>
> So I think we should do some more techical testing on these. But it also
> depends on how proficient the screen reader users are in operating their
> software.
>
> Regards
>
> Björn
>
>
> Am Di., 25. Mai 2021 um 18:26 Uhr schrieb Lucy GRECO < <EMAIL REMOVED>
> >:
>
> > Hello
> >
> > I WOULD BE SUPPRIZED TO FIND THE CAPTION WEB SITE NOT ACCESSABLE. THAT
> > STRIKES ME AS NOT LIKELY HAVE YOU CHECKED THAT WEB SITE YOUR SELF MAYBE
> IT
> > JUST NEEDED BETTTER DIRECTIONS FOR A SCREENREADER USER AFTER ALL
> CAPTIONS
> > ARE TEXT AREN'T THEY
> > Lucia Greco
> > Web Accessibility Evangelist
> > IST - Architecture, Platforms, and Integration
> > University of California, Berkeley
> > (510) 289-6008 skype: lucia1-greco
> > http://webaccess.berkeley.edu
> > Follow me on twitter @accessaces
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 9:17 AM Polling, Neil <
> <EMAIL REMOVED>
> > >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Additionally captions can be used in such a way that they aren't just
> > > showing what people are saying, but also include descriptions of what
> is
> > > happening. So if there are captions that are providing context that
> > would
> > > normally be provided through vision, if those captions aren't also in
> > some
> > > way being read aloud then the overall experience would be inaccessible
> to
> > > those with vision impairments.
> > >
> > > Neil Polling | Quality Assurance Analyst | Broadridge Financial
> > Solutions,
> > > Inc.
> > > 525 S. Lake Avenue | Duluth, MN | USA | p 218-464-5344 | m 218-409-3019
> > >
> > > broadridge.com
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of
> > > Andrews, David B (DEED)
> > > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2021 10:55 AM
> > > To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> > > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Question regarding live caption
> > >
> > > EXTERNAL EMAIL
> > >
> > > There are others who may also benefit from captions, people learning
> > > English, people in a noisy environment, etc.
> > >
> > > When done correctly, accessibility benefits everybody!
> > >
> > > Dave
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of
> > > Björn Fisseler
> > > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2021 10:51 AM
> > > To: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> > > Subject: [WebAIM] Question regarding live caption
> > >
> > > This message may be from an external email source.
> > > Do not select links or open attachments unless verified. Report all
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> > >
> > > > > >
> > > Dear list members,
> > >
> > > last week we ran a live event for the GAAD 2021. Live captioning was
> > > provided for the whole event using a separate website due to technical
> > > restriction.
> > > One participant, who identified as being blind, later complained that
> the
> > > captions weren't accessible to her.
> > > My question is, if we follow the WCAG 2.1, would we have to make the
> > > captions fully accessible to all? I always thought of captions as
> success
> > > criterion for people who are deaf or hard of hearing (see Success
> > Criterion
> > > 1.2.4
> > >
> >
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Fwww.w3.org*2FWAI*2FWCAG21*2FUnderstanding*2Fcaptions-live.html&amp;data*7C01*7Cdavid.b.andrews*40state.mn.us*7Cb6f4dca1c34b41f2a49208d91f94fcf2*7Ceb14b04624c445198f26b89c2159828c*7C0*7C1*7C637575547119814171*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&amp;sdata=CSBJqrnIYIvhHqF31ue86s2zqlMEhLIkhTFSy6I3cc4*3D&amp;reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!Ebr-cpPeAnfNniQ8HSAI-g_K5b7VKg!dDE4t2rFuQTKrsqJ5GWKcxz3hNIEcsmWVF_20YrDEVtcBa_pa_qxawDJIK9BR1TRRUFzhw$
> > > <
> > >
> >
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Fwww.w3.org*2FWAI*2FWCAG21*2FUnderstanding*2Fcaptions-live.html&amp;data*7C01*7Cdavid.b.andrews*40state.mn.us*7Cb6f4dca1c34b41f2a49208d91f94fcf2*7Ceb14b04624c445198f26b89c2159828c*7C0*7C1*7C637575547119814171*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&amp;sdata=CSBJqrnIYIvhHqF31ue86s2zqlMEhLIkhTFSy6I3cc4*3D&amp;reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!Ebr-cpPeAnfNniQ8HSAI-g_K5b7VKg!dDE4t2rFuQTKrsqJ5GWKcxz3hNIEcsmWVF_20YrDEVtcBa_pa_qxawDJIK9BR1TRRUFzhw$
> > > >).
> > > Though, while there certainly are people who are deaf-blind, I would
> not
> > > consider captions an option for blind users. But please correct me if
> I'm
> > > mistaken.
> > >
> > > Kind regards
> > >
> > > Björn
> > > > > > > > >
> >
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http*3A*2F*2Flist.webaim.org*2F&amp;data*7C01*7Cdavid.b.andrews*40state.mn.us*7Cb6f4dca1c34b41f2a49208d91f94fcf2*7Ceb14b04624c445198f26b89c2159828c*7C0*7C1*7C637575547119814171*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&amp;sdata=xwtZy*2FBbrbJFDF6*2BUpN*2BLyIrGvKovFNLyaQHfam*2FTAM*3D&amp;reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!Ebr-cpPeAnfNniQ8HSAI-g_K5b7VKg!dDE4t2rFuQTKrsqJ5GWKcxz3hNIEcsmWVF_20YrDEVtcBa_pa_qxawDJIK9BR1Tt0bsmdg$
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> >
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>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Patrick H. Lauke" < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> To: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 18:10:19 +0100
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Question regarding live caption
> On 25/05/2021 16:51, Björn Fisseler wrote:
> > Dear list members,
> >
> > last week we ran a live event for the GAAD 2021. Live captioning was
> > provided for the whole event using a separate website due to technical
> > restriction.
> > One participant, who identified as being blind, later complained that the
> > captions weren't accessible to her.
> > My question is, if we follow the WCAG 2.1, would we have to make the
> > captions fully accessible to all? I always thought of captions as success
> > criterion for people who are deaf or hard of hearing (see Success
> Criterion
> > 1.2.4 https://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG21/Understanding/captions-live.html
> > <https://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG21/Understanding/captions-live.html>).
> > Though, while there certainly are people who are deaf-blind, I would not
> > consider captions an option for blind users. But please correct me if I'm
> > mistaken.
>
> I agree, under WCAG, captions are aimed primarily at
> hard-of-hearing/deaf users. The assumption being that blind users will
> be able to hear the audio and not require captions (and if anything
> happens visually that's not conveyed by audio, that's where the
> requirement for audio description comes in).
>
> So, technically, even if you had a video with burnt-in open captions
> (i.e. they're part of the video track itself, not something separate
> like a text container that gets dynamically updated or anything), that
> satisfies the captioning requirement for WCAG.
>
> Deaf-blind users would most likely best be served with a media
> alternative - a full transcript that includes a written version of all
> audio, important/informative audio cues, as well as a description of any
> visual-only information that was in the video.
>
> IMO, of course.
>
> P
> --
> Patrick H. Lauke
>
> https://www.splintered.co.uk/ | https://github.com/patrickhlauke
> https://flickr.com/photos/redux/ | https://www.deviantart.com/redux
> twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke
>
> > > > >