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Re: achieving PDF/UA compliance

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From: chagnon@pubcom.com
Date: Mar 29, 2023 3:33PM

Apologies, Steve.
Your last comment helps clear up what you originally wrote
/quote if a PDF passes an automated PDF/UA check, it's usually a good sign because you can't pass it by accident. /endquote.

What do you mean by "an automated PDF/UA check?
— It passed Acrobat's built in PDF checker?
— It passed a 3rd party checker, like PAC or Commonlook?
— It passed a manual check and testing with assistive technologies? (although I wouldn't consider this an automated check!)

Acrobat's automated checker will pass a document with just P tags, or with a scan for the entire page and tagged as Figure with Alt Text that says "graphic of text." Acrobat's checker does indeed pass these failed PDFs by accident.

Even better checkers like PAC and CommonLook don't find mis-tagged content, poor reading orders, or a stack of figures at the bottom of the tag tree of a 350 page book.

But if you mean the whole enchilada of checking PDFs (automated + Human), then yes, I too assume that the file is probably fairly accessible to most people and their technologies.

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Bevi Chagnon | Designer, Accessibility Technician | <EMAIL REMOVED>
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PubCom: Technologists for Accessible Design + Publishing
consulting • training • development • design • sec. 508 services
Upcoming classes at www.PubCom.com/classes
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Latest blog-newsletter – Simple Guide to Writing Alt-Text

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Green < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2023 11:27 AM
To: <EMAIL REMOVED> ; WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
Subject: RE: [WebAIM] achieving PDF/UA compliance

I didn't say that. I said a PDF/UA conformant document is more likely to be accessible than most others. But that won't always be the case, just as WCAG conformance usually means a website is reasonably accessible, but it doesn't guarantee it.

Did your document actually pass a PDF/UA test or did it just have the identifier and logo? Obviously my comments were based on documents actually passing.

Steve


-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of <EMAIL REMOVED>
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2023 2:29 PM
To: 'WebAIM Discussion List' < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] achieving PDF/UA compliance

I'm not sure passing a PDF/UA check is always a good sign of sufficient accessibility.

Just had a PDF from a client that consisted of only P tags, and several tables and sidebar boxes weren't even tagged at all.
But it did pass the Acrobat checker, and even had the PDF/UA identifier/medallion on it.

Bevi
— — —
Bevi Chagnon | Designer, Accessibility Technician | <EMAIL REMOVED> — — —
PubCom: Technologists for Accessible Design + Publishing consulting • training • development • design • sec. 508 services Upcoming classes at www.PubCom.com/classes — — — Latest blog-newsletter – Simple Guide to Writing Alt-Text

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of Steve Green
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2023 2:17 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] achieving PDF/UA compliance

As a rule I don't believe any accessibility conformance statement I didn't write myself, although I would trust them from some of the people in this forum. Very few stand up to any scrutiny. That said, if a PDF passes an automated PDF/UA check, it's usually a good sign because you can't pass it by accident. It requires a lot of good design and/or remediation, so whoever did it probably know what they were doing.

PDF/UA conformance doesn't mean that the document is accessible, but the likelihood is it's far more accessible than most.

Steve


-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of Karen McCall
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2023 6:41 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] achieving PDF/UA compliance

I agree. It is a voluntary sticker that someone can apply to a PDF. I really don't like applications that simply add it in with an accessibility check. I then have to figure out how to remove it while remediating the PDF. I perform accessibility checks often during remediation so don't want the identifier attached until or unless I want to add it.

I don't add it to my PDFs.

Cheers, Karen

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of Jon Brundage via WebAIM-Forum
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2023 1:34 PM
To: 'WebAIM Discussion List' < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
Cc: <EMAIL REMOVED>
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] achieving PDF/UA compliance

Hi Steve-

Do you find the declaration of "UA" a bit like VPATs? I am dubious of the claims when someone says "this is UA so it is accessible. "UA" (like VPATs) is more of an honor system in my opinion. I could construct a PDF that is inaccessible and still get it to take the "UA" declaration.

Thoughts?

Jon

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of Steve Green
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2023 12:33 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] achieving PDF/UA compliance

I find that the Preflight tool only helps to fix a few of the PDF/UA issues we encounter. We fix most of the issues in other ways, mostly in the Tags panel. It's also worth noting that the Commonlook PDF Validator tests for PDF/UA conformance more thoroughly than PAC2021. And there are some tests you have to do manually.

If it's any consolation, I am fully sighted but find the Preflight dialog difficult to understand. I don't think it has changed in the 18 years I have been doing PDF remediation and it could seriously do with a redesign.

Steve Green
Managing Director
Test Partners Ltd


-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of Garmer, Shawn via WebAIM-Forum
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2023 3:55 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
Cc: Garmer, Shawn < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] achieving PDF/UA compliance

If you are using the PAC 2021 checker, you may find taggedpdf.com helpful in deciphering the results and applying a fix using Acrobat Pro.
Full URL is https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftagged.pdf.com%2F&data%7C01%7C%7C00ddc496498d4933f20308db2fb29daa%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638156216420475365%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=XpRnRAJeEfozlO4SdKYdJqYprZ54kNf3EotrBKXf1RE%3D&reserved=0

Embrace the journey.

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of David Farough
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2023 10:40 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
Subject: [WebAIM] achieving PDF/UA compliance

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I am working on a document which has passed the acrobat Accessibility checker.
I am as the subject indicates trying to pass the PDF/UA standard.
I am trying to use the pre flight tool to fix any remaining issues.
I am using Jaws and these dialogues are extremely difficult to use and understand.
Does anyone have any tips or suggestions to make this easier?
I am not sure about the best profile to use or what aspects of this process to concentrate on.
The PAC 2021 accessibility checker indicates that I have some content and structure issues to deal with and a font issue as well.
Any advice is appreciated.
Thanks