WebAIM - Web Accessibility In Mind

E-mail List Archives

for

From: Laurence Lewis
Date: Aug 2, 2025 4:04PM

Hi Dean

Thank you for taking the time to write such a comprehensive and thoughtful
response. I hadn’t expected such a detailed breakdown, and I really
appreciate the clarity you brought to the issue.

Your insights on how SC 4.1.3 applies in this context were incredibly
helpful.

Thanks,

Laurence Lewis

Accessibility Senior Specialist | Telstra


On Sun, 3 Aug 2025 at 4:00 am, < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:

> Send WebAIM-Forum mailing list submissions to
> <EMAIL REMOVED>
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> https://list.webaim.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/webaim-forum
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> <EMAIL REMOVED>
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> <EMAIL REMOVED>
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of WebAIM-Forum digest..."
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Weird bug in both JAWS and NVDA (maybe) (Léonie Watson)
> 2. Re: Weird bug in both JAWS and NVDA (maybe) (Patrick H. Lauke)
> 3. Re: Weird bug in both JAWS and NVDA (maybe) (Steve Green)
> (Christine Hogenkamp)
> 4. scrollable content accessibility (David Farough)
> 5. Re: Weird bug in both JAWS and NVDA (maybe) (Sailesh Panchang)
> 6. Re: scrollable content accessibility (Sailesh Panchang)
> 7. WCAG 2.2 SC 4.1.3 Status Message – Error Handling Across
> Multi-Part Date Input (Laurence Lewis)
> 8. Re: WCAG 2.2 SC 4.1.3 Status Message – Error Handling
> Across Multi-Part Date Input ( <EMAIL REMOVED> )
> 9. Preferred order of items in a file? (Paul Rittman)
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Léonie Watson" < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2025 19:06:13 +0100
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Weird bug in both JAWS and NVDA (maybe)
> This isn't a bug. It's the way the Accessible Name and Description
> Computation algorithm works [1].
>
> The short version is that ARIA takes precedence over all other sources
> for the accessible name, so in this case the content of the anchor is
> overridden by the value of the aria-label attribute.
>
> Léonie
> [1] https://www.w3.org/TR/accname-1.1/
>
>
>
>
> On 01/08/2025 18:49, Steve Green via WebAIM-Forum wrote:
> > I have been testing a website that contains some code that is nasty, but
> not strictly wrong as far as I can tell. Both JAWS and NVDA handle it in a
> way the developer would not have intended, and not only do they behave the
> same, but they do so with both Chrome and Firefox. I am told that Voiceover
> on macOS handles it differently, but I have not verified it and it's not
> particularly relevant. The code is very simple:
> >
> > <a href="#" aria-label="foo">
> > <h3>bar</h3>
> > </a>
> >
> > It's not obvious how you would expect a screen reader to announce this,
> but you would probably expect its announcements to include a link called
> "foo" and a heading called "bar". Or maybe a heading/link called "foo".
> Neither of these happen. JAWS and NVDA just announce a link called "foo"
> and nothing else. If the "aria-label" attribute is removed, they announce a
> heading/link called "bar", as you would expect.
> >
> > The accessibility tree shows that the <a> element has an accessible name
> of "foo" and that the heading contents are "bar". This looks correct to me
> and suggests that JAWS and NVDA are interpreting it incorrectly. But before
> I report the issue to both vendors I would be interested in the thoughts
> from this forum. Are the browsers doing something wrong? Is the correct
> behaviour ambiguous? Is the code invalid in a way I've missed?
> >
> > Steve Green
> > Managing Director
> > Test Partners Ltd
> >
>
> --
>
> Léonie Watson (she/her)
> Director
> https://tetralogical.com
>
> Looking to kick start or refresh your accessibility knowledge? Then
> sign-up for our free six day newsletter Accessibility Unlocked!
> <https://tetralogical.com/newsletters/accessibility-unlocked/>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Patrick H. Lauke" < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> To: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2025 19:11:49 +0100
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Weird bug in both JAWS and NVDA (maybe)
> The aria-label completely overrides whatever's inside that link, so this
> is as expected.
>
> P
> --
> Patrick H. Lauke
>
> * https://www.splintered.co.uk/
> * https://github.com/patrickhlauke
> * https://flickr.com/photos/redux/
> * https://mastodon.social/@patrick_h_lauke
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Christine Hogenkamp < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> To: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2025 15:00:58 -0400
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Weird bug in both JAWS and NVDA (maybe) (Steve Green)
> Hi Steve,
>
> In terms of proper HTML, the header tag should go on the outside and the
> link would go inside. A link tag is by default an "inline" element like a
> span tag compared to a header tag, which by default is a display:block
> element. My understanding is that HTML5 is a bit more flexible about this
> and most modern browsers are more forgiving of incorrect HTML, but there
> may be assistive devices/tech that follows the rules of older HTML and
> operate in a more strict fashion.
>
> This may explain why you are experiencing some announcement issues.
>
> *x*
> *Christine Hogenkamp (She, Her)*
> Front-end Developer & Accessibility Lead
> Context Creative – a Mod Op company
> 416.972.1439 | contextcreative.com
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 1, 2025 at 2:00 PM < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> wrote:
>
> > Send WebAIM-Forum mailing list submissions to
> > <EMAIL REMOVED>
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > https://list.webaim.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/webaim-forum
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > <EMAIL REMOVED>
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > <EMAIL REMOVED>
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of WebAIM-Forum digest..."
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. Weird bug in both JAWS and NVDA (maybe) (Steve Green)
> > 2. Re: Weird bug in both JAWS and NVDA (maybe) (Steve Green)
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: Steve Green < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> > To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> > Cc:
> > Bcc:
> > Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2025 17:49:15 +0000
> > Subject: [WebAIM] Weird bug in both JAWS and NVDA (maybe)
> > I have been testing a website that contains some code that is nasty, but
> > not strictly wrong as far as I can tell. Both JAWS and NVDA handle it in
> a
> > way the developer would not have intended, and not only do they behave
> the
> > same, but they do so with both Chrome and Firefox. I am told that
> Voiceover
> > on macOS handles it differently, but I have not verified it and it's not
> > particularly relevant. The code is very simple:
> >
> > <a href="#" aria-label="foo">
> > <h3>bar</h3>
> > </a>
> >
> > It's not obvious how you would expect a screen reader to announce this,
> > but you would probably expect its announcements to include a link called
> > "foo" and a heading called "bar". Or maybe a heading/link called "foo".
> > Neither of these happen. JAWS and NVDA just announce a link called "foo"
> > and nothing else. If the "aria-label" attribute is removed, they
> announce a
> > heading/link called "bar", as you would expect.
> >
> > The accessibility tree shows that the <a> element has an accessible name
> > of "foo" and that the heading contents are "bar". This looks correct to
> me
> > and suggests that JAWS and NVDA are interpreting it incorrectly. But
> before
> > I report the issue to both vendors I would be interested in the thoughts
> > from this forum. Are the browsers doing something wrong? Is the correct
> > behaviour ambiguous? Is the code invalid in a way I've missed?
> >
> > Steve Green
> > Managing Director
> > Test Partners Ltd
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: Steve Green < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> > To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> > Cc:
> > Bcc:
> > Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2025 17:55:56 +0000
> > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Weird bug in both JAWS and NVDA (maybe)
> > It's worth mentioning that the heading also does not appear in JAWS'
> > Headings List and cannot be found using the screen reader's H or 3
> > shortcuts.
> >
> > Steve
> >