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RE: Unordered Lists

for

From: Jan Eric Hellbusch
Date: Aug 12, 2005 11:12AM

Hello Thomas,

> I conclude that you find OL more user friendly as list of links
> than UL or DIV. I am right?

As Patrick mentioned, there are other aspects to the matter.

If we are talking about screen reader access - and only screen reader - then
OL is definately easier to navigate than UL. The question which then arises,
is when a UL is still appropiate. A short list will still be fine, but as
mentioned in an earlier mail, ULs are "added" to the prvious block element.
And if there several ULs after each other, they are all added together to
the previous block element. Patrick mentioned the L key - it would be useful
if all users in question were familiar with it.

> Do you know of a Web sites that list non-graphical browsers that
> do not have proper Web page rendering (behaviour)?

I'm afraid not. The bits of information are just from our testing
experiences in the last few years.

> You said:
> "DIV has no semantic relevance in that sense [list of links]."
> I agree. But, have you done (or, are aware of) tests that shows
> that list of links within DIV is easier for (certain) users to
> use than OL or UL?

No. DIV should only be used for layout. It is from my point of view very
good, that screen readers I have used don't get down to DIV and SPAN.

> If DIV proves to be more user friendly than OL or UL, would you
> agree that usability should have higher priority than semantics?

I can't think of a situation, where DIV might have an influence on screen
reader usability. But certainly usability should have a higher priority than
semantics.

> You said:
> "It's not that the screen readers don't recognize a UL or a DL,
> rather they don't allow good navigation within them."
>
> Then, what is your thoughts on why some of the 16 Web sites that
> I mentioned, choose UL and DL as list of links, rather than OL?

Longer lists should be broken down into seperate lists, e.g. main navigation
and others. If using UL: a block element before the UL helps find the
beginning of the list (I use H6 and shove it out of the viewport). If using
DL: I don't have a solution for that, it seems to be a screen reader
problem.

Regs
Jan

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