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Thread: skip to content, where and how many?
Number of posts in this thread: 10 (In chronological order)
From: Leo Smith
Date: Thu, Feb 28 2002 1:39PM
Subject: skip to content, where and how many?
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Can I ask folks' opinions on acceptable anchors that the "skip nav"
link on a page should go to. Would it be acceptable to have the link
go to an anchor that is wrapped around a transparent gif, the gif
being located right before the main content.
The reason I ask is that I am trying to develop templates for folks to
use on our campus, but want to make sure that the anchors are
somewhere in the code that folks do not edit. If I place it around an
<h1> or <h2> tag right at the beginning of the main content, then it
might get deleted as people will be editing that part.
So I guess my question is, does the anchor have to be right where
the "meat" of the content begins, or would immediately before,
around a transparent gif, be OK. Would this be confusing to a non-
visual user who might expect to arrive right at the main content
when they follow that link?
Also, what do people think about having two skip navigation links
on a page - one at the top for the repetitive header navigation, and
one further into the page that would skip a long list of links located
on the right of the page, jumping down to the content after this list
of links (not back upto the first main content section, as that
wouldn't make any sense, as the user would have already
encountered that part of the page).
Any suggestions would be very much appreciated.
Thanks!
Leo.
Leo Smith
Web Designer/Developer
USM Office of Publications and Marketing
University of Southern Maine
207-780-4774
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From: Tim Harshbarger
Date: Fri, Mar 01 2002 12:18AM
Subject: RE: skip to content, where and how many?
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Leo,
Probably, the optimal behaviour would be to have the user skip to the first
line of content within the section. However, in this situation, it might
work better to do what you are proposing. The fact is that you cannot
guarantee that the first line of content will be within an H1 tag. -- and
like you mention, if the person designing the site deletes that tag, they
may not add back what they need to in order to have the skip link work
correctly.
Instead of thinking of the links as a way to allow users to skip past parts
of the page, think of them as links to help the user skip more quickly to
specific areas of the page. I definitely agree, if your major sections are
the navigational and content sections, it would help to allow users to
navigate as quickly to these specific areas when they need to do so.
Tim
Tim Harshbarger
Disability Support
State Farm Insurance Companies
Phone: (309) 766-0154
E-mail: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
From: Ineke van der Maat
Date: Thu, Feb 28 2002 3:49PM
Subject: Re: skip to content, where and how many?
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Hello Leo,
I have as first text always<a href="text">Skip all the links</a><br /> on my page just above the navigationsystem (navigationbar and breadcrumb trail), so it is easy to see and then <h1 id="text">Pagetitle</h1>
In this way you can skip the whole navigationsystem. and see the pagetitle as first text in your screen.
So there is no confusion at all.
When you also put something above your second row of links you can put the id="' in the first <p> below these
row of links. I don't see any problem.. worse.. I will do it in this way.. Also thanks for your tip when I need it..
Greetings
Ineke van der Maat
----- Original Message -----
From: "Leo Smith" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
To: "WebAIM forum" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 9:39 PM
Subject: skip to content, where and how many?
> Can I ask folks' opinions on acceptable anchors that the "skip nav"
> link on a page should go to.
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From: Jim Thatcher
Date: Thu, Feb 28 2002 7:01PM
Subject: RE: skip to content, where and how many?
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It seems to me you are asking about the target of the skip link. I think
many don't realize that <A name="skiptarget"></A> is just fine. No content
is necessary. This is what makes it easy to incorporate the skip link into
templates.
Jim
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Accessibility Consulting
http://jimthatcher.com
512-306-0931
From: Mark Rew
Date: Fri, Mar 01 2002 6:40AM
Subject: Re: skip to content, where and how many?
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Leo,
These are good questions, and will help your site to be accessible to screen
readers.
I'm not sure if I'm following the first part of your question. Usually I try
to have the first "skip to content" take the screen reader to a heading. If
the graphic your are skipping is in a <div> element you could put the anchor
immediately after the </div> tag.
I like the second "navigational skip link" idea. This would be useful for
screen readers that do not have the feature of skipping to the first
non-anchor text from the current pc cursor.
Consider using access keys for a quick means for the screen reader to get to
the skip navigational links.
thanks
Mark Rew
----- Original Message -----
From: "Leo Smith" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
To: "WebAIM forum" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 3:39 PM
Subject: skip to content, where and how many?
> Can I ask folks' opinions on acceptable anchors that the "skip nav"
> link on a page should go to. Would it be acceptable to have the link
> go to an anchor that is wrapped around a transparent gif, the gif
> being located right before the main content.
>
> The reason I ask is that I am trying to develop templates for folks to
> use on our campus, but want to make sure that the anchors are
> somewhere in the code that folks do not edit. If I place it around an
> <h1> or <h2> tag right at the beginning of the main content, then it
> might get deleted as people will be editing that part.
>
> So I guess my question is, does the anchor have to be right where
> the "meat" of the content begins, or would immediately before,
> around a transparent gif, be OK. Would this be confusing to a non-
> visual user who might expect to arrive right at the main content
> when they follow that link?
>
> Also, what do people think about having two skip navigation links
> on a page - one at the top for the repetitive header navigation, and
> one further into the page that would skip a long list of links located
> on the right of the page, jumping down to the content after this list
> of links (not back upto the first main content section, as that
> wouldn't make any sense, as the user would have already
> encountered that part of the page).
>
> Any suggestions would be very much appreciated.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Leo.
>
> Leo Smith
> Web Designer/Developer
> USM Office of Publications and Marketing
> University of Southern Maine
> 207-780-4774
>
>
> ---
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or view list archives,
> visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
>
>
> ----
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or view list archives,
> visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
>
>
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From: rob
Date: Fri, Mar 01 2002 7:26AM
Subject: Re: skip to content, where and how many?
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Hey,
you can take a lot of cues from the work we have done in developing an
interface for The Robert Gordon University online campus:
http://www.bunnyfoot.com/virtualcampus/
It is important to user test, with appropriate users, the remark employed in
the "skip nav " link. You may well find that many blind users skip the skip
nav link without ever listening to it!
Robert Stevens
Bunnyfoot - Web Usability & Accessibility Specialists
Tel: +44 1235 838500
www.bunnyfoot.com
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
About Bunnyfoot:
We make our clients more money by making their web sites easy to use and
device independent.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Leo Smith" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
To: "WebAIM forum" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 8:39 PM
Subject: skip to content, where and how many?
> Can I ask folks' opinions on acceptable anchors that the "skip nav"
> link on a page should go to. Would it be acceptable to have the link
> go to an anchor that is wrapped around a transparent gif, the gif
> being located right before the main content.
>
> The reason I ask is that I am trying to develop templates for folks to
> use on our campus, but want to make sure that the anchors are
> somewhere in the code that folks do not edit. If I place it around an
> <h1> or <h2> tag right at the beginning of the main content, then it
> might get deleted as people will be editing that part.
>
> So I guess my question is, does the anchor have to be right where
> the "meat" of the content begins, or would immediately before,
> around a transparent gif, be OK. Would this be confusing to a non-
> visual user who might expect to arrive right at the main content
> when they follow that link?
>
> Also, what do people think about having two skip navigation links
> on a page - one at the top for the repetitive header navigation, and
> one further into the page that would skip a long list of links located
> on the right of the page, jumping down to the content after this list
> of links (not back upto the first main content section, as that
> wouldn't make any sense, as the user would have already
> encountered that part of the page).
>
> Any suggestions would be very much appreciated.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Leo.
>
> Leo Smith
> Web Designer/Developer
> USM Office of Publications and Marketing
> University of Southern Maine
> 207-780-4774
>
>
> ---
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or view list archives,
> visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
>
>
> ----
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or view list archives,
> visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
>
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From: Leo Smith
Date: Mon, Mar 04 2002 7:50AM
Subject: RE: skip to content, where and how many?
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Jim,
thanks for the good point.
However, I have noticed that In Opera 5 (and maybe 6 - I haven't
tested), the anchor needs to be placed around some kind of
content for it to work.
Leo.
On 28 Feb 2002, at 20:01, Jim Thatcher wrote:
> It seems to me you are asking about the target of the skip link. I
> think many don't realize that <A name="skiptarget"></A> is just fine.
> No content is necessary. This is what makes it easy to incorporate the
> skip link into templates.
>
> Jim
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Accessibility Consulting
> http://jimthatcher.com
> 512-306-0931
>
>
From: Leo Smith
Date: Mon, Mar 04 2002 8:18AM
Subject: Re: skip to content, where and how many?
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Hi Rob,
Thanks for the input..
I checked out the page you mention below, and noted the alt text
you use for the skip links link - I had also been thinking about the
wording of that link in my own pages.
I cannot find the target of that link, however, in the page below.
There doesn't seem to be a <A name="contents">, either with
content inside or not..
please let me know if I am missing something here...
thanks!
Leo.
On 1 Mar 2002, at 14:26, rob wrote:
> Hey,
>
> you can take a lot of cues from the work we have done in developing an
> interface for The Robert Gordon University online campus:
> http://www.bunnyfoot.com/virtualcampus/
>
> It is important to user test, with appropriate users, the remark
> employed in the "skip nav " link. You may well find that many blind
> users skip the skip nav link without ever listening to it!
>
> Robert Stevens
> Bunnyfoot - Web Usability & Accessibility Specialists
> Tel: +44 1235 838500
> www.bunnyfoot.com
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> About Bunnyfoot:
> We make our clients more money by making their web sites easy to use
> and device independent.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Leo Smith" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> To: "WebAIM forum" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 8:39 PM
> Subject: skip to content, where and how many?
>
>
> > Can I ask folks' opinions on acceptable anchors that the "skip nav"
> > link on a page should go to. Would it be acceptable to have the link
> > go to an anchor that is wrapped around a transparent gif, the gif
> > being located right before the main content.
> >
> > The reason I ask is that I am trying to develop templates for folks
> > to use on our campus, but want to make sure that the anchors are
> > somewhere in the code that folks do not edit. If I place it around
> > an <h1> or <h2> tag right at the beginning of the main content, then
> > it might get deleted as people will be editing that part.
> >
> > So I guess my question is, does the anchor have to be right where
> > the "meat" of the content begins, or would immediately before,
> > around a transparent gif, be OK. Would this be confusing to a non-
> > visual user who might expect to arrive right at the main content
> > when they follow that link?
> >
> > Also, what do people think about having two skip navigation links on
> > a page - one at the top for the repetitive header navigation, and
> > one further into the page that would skip a long list of links
> > located on the right of the page, jumping down to the content after
> > this list of links (not back upto the first main content section, as
> > that wouldn't make any sense, as the user would have already
> > encountered that part of the page).
> >
> > Any suggestions would be very much appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Leo.
> >
> > Leo Smith
> > Web Designer/Developer
> > USM Office of Publications and Marketing
> > University of Southern Maine
> > 207-780-4774
> >
> >
>
Leo Smith
Web Designer/Developer
USM Office of Publications and Marketing
University of Southern Maine
207-780-4774
----
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visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
From: Paul Bohman
Date: Mon, Mar 04 2002 11:03AM
Subject: RE: skip to content, where and how many?
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>>However, I have noticed that In Opera 5 (and maybe 6 - I haven't
tested), the anchor needs to be placed around some kind of
content for it to work.
I tested this in both Opera 5 and Opera 6. The skip nav works in both
versions, with or without content in the <a> tag. I am using Windows
2000.
Paul Bohman
Technology Coordinator
WebAIM (Web Accessibility in Mind)
www.webaim.org
Center for Persons with Disabilities
www.cpd.usu.edu
Utah State University
www.usu.edu
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From: Leo Smith
Date: Tue, Mar 05 2002 6:54AM
Subject: Opera anchors
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hmm....seems like I may have been imagining this issue with
Opera - I get the same result as you, Paul, but I seem to
remember about 6 months ago when I was developing an online
academic catalog that none of my anchors would work in Opera
unless some content was wrapped in them. Maybe something else
was going on there - an extraneous third variable.
Leo.
On 4 Mar 2002, at 11:03, Paul Bohman wrote:
> >>However, I have noticed that In Opera 5 (and maybe 6 - I haven't
> tested), the anchor needs to be placed around some kind of
> content for it to work.
>
> I tested this in both Opera 5 and Opera 6. The skip nav works in both
> versions, with or without content in the <a> tag. I am using Windows
> 2000.
>
> Paul Bohman
> Technology Coordinator
> WebAIM (Web Accessibility in Mind)
> www.webaim.org
> Center for Persons with Disabilities
> www.cpd.usu.edu
> Utah State University
> www.usu.edu
>
>
>
>
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> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or view list archives,
> visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
>
Leo Smith
Web Designer/Developer
USM Office of Publications and Marketing
University of Southern Maine
207-780-4774
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