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From: Tom Kort
Date: Thu, Jun 05 2008 9:00PM
Subject: Speech output for a Trip Planner Table
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Hello all, first of all, I am working on the accessibility of trip planners. Does anyone know
anyone working on something like this?
In my work I am currently using the Job Access to Work (JAWS) screen reader program on the Vancouver
translink.bc.ca website.
When I access the trip planner for Translink I get something like:
A readout of the top navigation bar ("link graphic bus schedules nav slash five", etc)
A readout of the main graphic ("link graphic South Coast British Columbia Transportation Authority")
A readout of the bottom navigation bar ("link graphic home nav slash five", etc)
....readout of some more graphics...
A readout of the table name
A readout of the headers ("link graphic trip options, link graphic start, link graphic trip end", etc.)
A readout of the first table row:
"Detail Expo Line 5 15p 5 19p 4min 00 point 62 k m dollar 2 point 5 0"
The output I ultimately want is
"Press for Details, Transit Line Expo Line, Trip Start 5 15pm, Trip End 5 19pm, Duration 4 min, Transfers 0, Walk 0 point 62km, dollar 2 point 5 0"


Question.
Is there a good method to produce my desired speech output?
Can JAWS or any other popular screen reader program filter out the "p" on the time (5:19p)?
Can JAWS read the column of a table as it traverses a row?
One weird thing happens... When I get the trip planner results, sometimes I get the readout
of the previous page, instead of the current page, Why is this?
 
Thank you. cheers.
 
-Michael Ohene

From: Moore, Michael
Date: Fri, Jun 06 2008 7:50AM
Subject: Re: Speech output for a Trip Planner Table
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Michael Ohne wrote:

...

The output I ultimately want is
"Press for Details, Transit Line Expo Line, Trip Start 5 15pm, Trip End
5 19pm, Duration 4 min, Transfers 0, Walk 0 point 62km, dollar 2 point 5
0"


Question.
Is there a good method to produce my desired speech output?
Can JAWS or any other popular screen reader program filter out the "p"
on the time (5:19p)?
Can JAWS read the column of a table as it traverses a row?
One weird thing happens... When I get the trip planner results,
sometimes I get the readout of the previous page, instead of the current
page, Why is this?

Mikes response:

First much of what you are looking for is dependant upon user verbosity
settings within JAWS, further it is somewhat dependant upon which
version of JAWS the user is working with.

Second users are used to JAWS announcing things like "graphic link"
followed by the content of the alt attribute. This is useful
information, particularly since so many web applications use graphics
that look like buttons and the user instructions or help desk folks will
provide instructions like click on the continue button, when it is
really a link. Buttons can be found in the form field list, jaws
key(insert) F5 while links can be found in the links list jaws key F7.
There are other ways to navigate to form field elements or links but
again you must know which one you are looking for. When learning an
interface it is convenient to know whether a link is a graphic or not,
and if I want I can turn that announcement off. You could improve the
reading of the graphic links by eliminating the slashes and placing the
links in a list.

Third, table reading. There are a good fistful of table reading
commands in JAWS. I can read a linearized version of the table by using
the normal reading commands - the arrow keys or combinations of arrow
keys and either insert or control. To get the column headings read as I
move across a row the command is control+alt+left or right arrow. To
listen to row headings as I move down a column the command is
control+alt+down arrow. If I want all of the headings associated with a
cell read to me I can use control+alt+numpad 5. One annoyance of JAWS
is that the leftmost cell in a row will always be considered to be
reported as a header regardless of how it is coded. Thus good table
design for JAWS would be to place information in that cell that is at
least somewhat useful in identifying the logic of grouping that
information in the rule. Thus 1. is less useful than John Smith in the
first row of a contact table that has names phone numbers and email
addresses.

Fourth, announcement of punctuation is also under control of the user.
I can choose some, most, all or none, what exactly is announced with
each of those settings is also user controllable. Use punctuation
correctly within the text and let the user decide how much they want to
listen to.

I hope that this helps. To get a better understanding of how JAWS works
in real life, see if you can get a demonstration from a few people who
use it as their primary means of accessing electronic information. I
have found that the variation in how people use their computers is even
more diverse among assistive technology users than it is among people
who use browsers without assistive technology.

Mike

From: Jennifer Sutton
Date: Fri, Jun 06 2008 10:40AM
Subject: Re: Speech output for a Trip Planner Table
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Hello:

At the risk of preaching to the choir, it is discussions like these
that illustrate why coding to standards, not for some "snapshot"
momentary representation of what one particular screen reader does
(or does not do), makes all the difference.

Using a screen reader, wisely, for possible testing, can be a useful
exercise, but mostly only when people are familiar with how screen
readers are used in the real world, by a range of real users across abilities.

With apologies to the choir . . . and thanks to Mike Moore for the
excellent education his detailed response provides.

To bring the subject back to trip planners, I will not claim that
it's perfect, but I find:
www.511.org

quite usable and useful with my screen reader of choice, Window-Eyes.

Jennifer

At 06:42 AM 6/6/2008, you wrote:
>Michael Ohne wrote:
>
>...
>
>The output I ultimately want is
>"Press for Details, Transit Line Expo Line, Trip Start 5 15pm, Trip End
>5 19pm, Duration 4 min, Transfers 0, Walk 0 point 62km, dollar 2 point 5
>0"
>
>
>Question.
>Is there a good method to produce my desired speech output?
>Can JAWS or any other popular screen reader program filter out the "p"
>on the time (5:19p)?
>Can JAWS read the column of a table as it traverses a row?
>One weird thing happens... When I get the trip planner results,
>sometimes I get the readout of the previous page, instead of the current
>page, Why is this?
>
>Mikes response:
>
>First much of what you are looking for is dependant upon user verbosity
>settings within JAWS, further it is somewhat dependant upon which
>version of JAWS the user is working with.
>
>Second users are used to JAWS announcing things like "graphic link"
>followed by the content of the alt attribute. This is useful
>information, particularly since so many web applications use graphics
>that look like buttons and the user instructions or help desk folks will
>provide instructions like click on the continue button, when it is
>really a link. Buttons can be found in the form field list, jaws
>key(insert) F5 while links can be found in the links list jaws key F7.
>There are other ways to navigate to form field elements or links but
>again you must know which one you are looking for. When learning an
>interface it is convenient to know whether a link is a graphic or not,
>and if I want I can turn that announcement off. You could improve the
>reading of the graphic links by eliminating the slashes and placing the
>links in a list.
>
>Third, table reading. There are a good fistful of table reading
>commands in JAWS. I can read a linearized version of the table by using
>the normal reading commands - the arrow keys or combinations of arrow
>keys and either insert or control. To get the column headings read as I
>move across a row the command is control+alt+left or right arrow. To
>listen to row headings as I move down a column the command is
>control+alt+down arrow. If I want all of the headings associated with a
>cell read to me I can use control+alt+numpad 5. One annoyance of JAWS
>is that the leftmost cell in a row will always be considered to be
>reported as a header regardless of how it is coded. Thus good table
>design for JAWS would be to place information in that cell that is at
>least somewhat useful in identifying the logic of grouping that
>information in the rule. Thus 1. is less useful than John Smith in the
>first row of a contact table that has names phone numbers and email
>addresses.
>
>Fourth, announcement of punctuation is also under control of the user.
>I can choose some, most, all or none, what exactly is announced with
>each of those settings is also user controllable. Use punctuation
>correctly within the text and let the user decide how much they want to
>listen to.
>
>I hope that this helps. To get a better understanding of how JAWS works
>in real life, see if you can get a demonstration from a few people who
>use it as their primary means of accessing electronic information. I
>have found that the variation in how people use their computers is even
>more diverse among assistive technology users than it is among people
>who use browsers without assistive technology.
>
>Mike
>