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From: Jennifer Sutton
Date: Sat, May 26 2012 2:09PM
Subject: making footnotes accessible in PDF documents
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Before posting to the list to ask about how to make footnotes
accessible in PDF documents, I did some searching on the Web. But the
information I found didn't seem as current as I'd prefer.

For example, I found this discussion on the Accessify Forum, from 2008:
http://www.accessifyforum.com/viewtopic.php?t—64

I'd appreciate it if folks could give me some guidance about how best
to make footnotes accessible in PDFs. I do believe that footnotes are
better than endnotes, and it certainly would be ideal if there were a
way to navigate/jump to the footnote, and then jump back to the place
I was, in the text, without having to insert a new link for each
footnote, to make this possible.

If anyone has a publicly available sample of best practices, I'd
appreciate a link. I've never seen an accessible PDF with footnotes,
so I'm pleased to be working on a project where I can help implement this.

Thanks in advance for suggestions.

Jennifer

From: Ryan E. Benson
Date: Sat, May 26 2012 3:15PM
Subject: Re: making footnotes accessible in PDF documents
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Jennifer,
Ideally you would make the number/letter/symbol that denotes a
footnote a link which moves the focus down to that line/paragraph.
From my research, you cannot finely control focus within PDFs without
writing a good chunk of JavaScript. As you may know in Word 2010 you
can save a word document as a PDF. I usually use NetCentric's PAW (now
called CommonLook Office) to create a PDF. I don't have access to the
computer I have PAW on, so I cannot give a for sure result. I believe
this case Word 2010's save as function does a better job than PAW
(sorry Duff); but if I reversed them, sorry. When you look at the
tags/reading order of a Word conversion, the reading order goes
paragraph, corresponding footnote, back to paragraph, then back down
to the footnote, when applicable. The PDF made by PAW, the reading
order goes down to the footnote at the correct time, but instead of
jumping up back to the paragraph, the rest of the footnotes are read,
then move back up to the paragraph.

The question becomes is do you want to make a person read the
individual footnote always after it is brought up, or clump them
together at the end of the page. I only had to do this once at work,
and the requestor preferred them to be read at the very end of the
page.


--
Ryan E. Benson


On Sat, May 26, 2012 at 4:09 PM, Jennifer Sutton < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Before posting to the list to ask about how to make footnotes
> accessible in PDF documents, I did some searching on the Web. But the
> information I found didn't seem as current as I'd prefer.
>
> For example, I found this discussion on the Accessify Forum, from 2008:
> http://www.accessifyforum.com/viewtopic.php?t—64
>
> I'd appreciate it if folks could give me some guidance about how best
> to make footnotes accessible in PDFs. I do believe that footnotes are
> better than endnotes, and it certainly would be ideal if there were a
> way to navigate/jump to the footnote, and then jump back to the place
> I was, in the text, without having to insert a new link for each
> footnote, to make this possible.
>
> If anyone has a publicly available sample of best practices, I'd
> appreciate a link. I've never seen an accessible PDF with footnotes,
> so I'm pleased to be working on a project where I can help implement this.
>
> Thanks in advance for suggestions.
>
> Jennifer
>
> > >

From: Jennifer Sutton
Date: Sat, May 26 2012 3:45PM
Subject: Re: making footnotes accessible in PDF documents
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Ryan et al:

Thanks for your time and thoughts, Ryan.

Writing "a good chunk of Javascript" is not a solution that's going
to work for my client.

I suppose the "reading order" could be set to assure that relevant
footnotes read after each paragraph to which they pertain, but I
don't believe that's the preferred convention. And I would not be
keen to somehow set the screen reader reading order to be different
from the visual reading order (if that's even possible).

Honestly, this kind of footnote navigation is common on the Web and
has been possible in ebooks for many years, now, so I'd think it'd be
common in Adobe, since it's more and more being used to create ebooks
which are likely to have footnotes at the bottom of each page.

It seems that I should clarify that the PDF in question already
exists, so it will not be a matter of converting from Word. This
document is large, so it would be a waste of time to convert back to
Word and recreate.

I doubt that my client is going to want to procure a separate
software package to assist with remediation (sorry, Duff).

What my client wants to do is to be able to generate PDF documents
properly (using Adobe's tools), and at the moment, what's in question
is how to implement footnotes.

In case this is clearer than what I originally wrote, what I'd like
to know, specifically, is:

-- Is it possible to link a footnote at the bottom of a page with its
corresponding text (in the document body) so as to give the user the
choice to navigate between the two?

-- If this kind of linked navigation is not possible, and I do want
the notes at the bottom of the page (which is what the convention in
the industry of my client is), what's the next best practice?

I suppose one could bookmark one's place, read the note, and then
return to reading the body text via the bookmark, but that seems like
a work-around.

If you read the Accessify Forum post I initially cited, you'll see
that there are conflicting opinions about how this is to be done, and
my hope is that, since 2008, Adobe may have made this easier.

As I suggested earlier, I'd really love to see a PDF document in
which footnotes are implemented in the best way that Adobe tools,
alone, permit.

Thanks, and I regret that this seems to require so much explanation.
I hoped it'd be fairly simple.

Jennifer
<snip previous messages in thread>

From: Duff Johnson
Date: Sun, May 27 2012 10:04PM
Subject: Re: making footnotes accessible in PDF documents
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On May 26, 2012, at 5:45 PM, Jennifer Sutton wrote:

> Ryan et al:
>
> Thanks for your time and thoughts, Ryan.

Yes, seconded. The software is constantly under development, and we always appreciate input.

> Writing "a good chunk of Javascript" is not a solution that's going
> to work for my client.
>
> I suppose the "reading order" could be set to assure that relevant
> footnotes read after each paragraph to which they pertain, but I
> don't believe that's the preferred convention.

Actually, it is preferred - and you'd use the tags tree to set this correctly.

> And I would not be
> keen to somehow set the screen reader reading order to be different
> from the visual reading order (if that's even possible).

It's not only possible, it's desirable. Consider: if you decided to tag the footnote into the correct logical location in the document then a typical "top to bottom, left to right" "visual reading order" for the page would all of a sudden be NOT appropriate in that instance, right?

…yet another reason to help understand why in PDF, tags are determinative of correct "logical reading order" regardless of any other "view".

> Honestly, this kind of footnote navigation is common on the Web and
> has been possible in ebooks for many years, now, so I'd think it'd be
> common in Adobe, since it's more and more being used to create ebooks
> which are likely to have footnotes at the bottom of each page.

Links do indeed suffer unfortunate limitations in PDF at this time. PDF 2.0 (currently under development) will provide a technical basis for links that work directly with the logical structure of the document.

> It seems that I should clarify that the PDF in question already
> exists, so it will not be a matter of converting from Word.

Well, that's important information - it means you are not going to be able to leverage the footnote structure in Word to create a properly tagged PDF. The only solution right now is to edit the tags in the PDF using Acrobat and/or the CommonLook PDF plug in for Acrobat.

> This
> document is large, so it would be a waste of time to convert back to
> Word and recreate.
>
> I doubt that my client is going to want to procure a separate
> software package to assist with remediation (sorry, Duff).

Everyone is feeling sorry for me! ;-)

> What my client wants to do is to be able to generate PDF documents
> properly (using Adobe's tools), and at the moment, what's in question
> is how to implement footnotes.

The ideal way to implement footnotes in Acrobat alone given the current state of PDF technology is to tag each footnote immediately following the footnote's reference in the body text. This may be accomplished in the tags panel of Adobe Acrobat readily enough, or of course also in the dedicated CommonLook PDF UI (hey, I'm not the one who started talking about our products on this thread! ;-)

> In case this is clearer than what I originally wrote, what I'd like
> to know, specifically, is:
>
> -- Is it possible to link a footnote at the bottom of a page with its
> corresponding text (in the document body) so as to give the user the
> choice to navigate between the two?

As discussed above, while it's possible today to perform the association via the tags tree, the linking solution will only become possible with PDF 2.0 (ISO 32000-2) which is still a ways off. :-(

> -- If this kind of linked navigation is not possible, and I do want
> the notes at the bottom of the page (which is what the convention in
> the industry of my client is), what's the next best practice?

I'm not sure what you mean by "at the bottom of the page". This is a physical, not a logical location. Yes, the footnotes COULD be tagged to appear at the end of a the page's content - but what if the bottom of the page content is one half of a sentence that continues on the next page? Why would you want the footnotes to interrupt the reading of that paragraph and out of place in the document?

Few take advantage of it, but the correct thing to do with the current version of PDF is this: Tag the footnote with a Note tag. Tag the reference with a Reference tag. Place the Note tag immediately following the Reference tag in the tag tree. Don't mess with the content order panel in Acrobat - you're likely to screw up the page. Plain content-order software can't be expected to do any better than top-to-bottom, left-to-right anyhow.

> I suppose one could bookmark one's place, read the note, and then
> return to reading the body text via the bookmark, but that seems like
> a work-around.

The sad reality is that in today's tech, links in PDF 1.7 can't be used to target a structure element :-(.

Better to tag the PDF correctly and thereby ensure that footnotes are clearly associated with their references.

> If you read the Accessify Forum post I initially cited, you'll see
> that there are conflicting opinions about how this is to be done, and
> my hope is that, since 2008, Adobe may have made this easier.
>
> As I suggested earlier, I'd really love to see a PDF document in
> which footnotes are implemented in the best way that Adobe tools,
> alone, permit.
>
> Thanks, and I regret that this seems to require so much explanation.
> I hoped it'd be fairly simple.

Hopefully this is clearer now?

Best regards,

Duff Johnson

President, NetCentric US (creators of CommonLook)
ISO 32000 Intl. Project Co-Leader, US Chair
ISO 14289 US Chair
PDF Association Vice-Chair

Office: +1 617 401 8140
Mobile: +1 617 283 4226
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
www.commonlook.com

From: Ryan E. Benson
Date: Sun, May 27 2012 10:15PM
Subject: Re: making footnotes accessible in PDF documents
← Previous message | Next message →

You are welcome.

> Writing "a good chunk of Javascript" is not a solution that's going
> to work for my client.
I didn't save the link I found, and this was a number of months ago so
my memory is a little fuzzy. I want to say you only had to write 5-10
lines of code, but it was per link.

> I suppose the "reading order" could be set to assure that relevant
> footnotes read after each paragraph to which they pertain, but I
> don't believe that's the preferred convention. And I would not be
> keen to somehow set the screen reader reading order to be different
> from the visual reading order (if that's even possible).
I would guess the convention would come down to the person who is
reading the document's preference. Back in college I would glance at
the footnote to see what it said. If I enjoyed the thing I was
reading, I would read through it, and go back to the body. If I knew
the author usually didn't say anything important and/or the professor
didn't think they were, I would simply ignore them. Re: visual vs
screen reader order: yes it is possible. It is kind of heard to
explain, but between the tag, order, page and maybe content panels you
can do that.

> It seems that I  should clarify that the PDF in question already
> exists, so it will not be a matter of converting from Word. This
> document is large, so it would be a waste of time to convert back to
> Word and recreate.
I would look at the panels I mentioned above, and tweak them as needed.

> What my client wants to do is to be able to generate PDF documents
> properly (using Adobe's tools), and at the moment, what's in question
> is how to implement footnotes.
I am not endorsing CommonLook's stuff, but it depends on what version
of Word you are using. In Office 2007, you have a tab added to the
ribbon if you have Acrobat installed. My evaluation of the output
gives you a PDF that is roughly 70% accessible. Using the 2010 save as
function, the percentage I get is usually somewhere in the 80s. With
PAW, that is usually 95%+. This is sort of relative because it is both
dependent on the document in question, and the checklist I use.


--
Ryan E. Benson


On Sat, May 26, 2012 at 5:45 PM, Jennifer Sutton < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Ryan et al:
>
> Thanks for your time and thoughts, Ryan.
>
> Writing "a good chunk of Javascript" is not a solution that's going
> to work for my client.
>
> I suppose the "reading order" could be set to assure that relevant
> footnotes read after each paragraph to which they pertain, but I
> don't believe that's the preferred convention. And I would not be
> keen to somehow set the screen reader reading order to be different
> from the visual reading order (if that's even possible).
>
> Honestly, this kind of footnote navigation is common on the Web and
> has been possible in ebooks for many years, now, so I'd think it'd be
> common in Adobe, since it's more and more being used to create ebooks
> which are likely to have footnotes at the bottom of each page.
>
> It seems that I  should clarify that the PDF in question already
> exists, so it will not be a matter of converting from Word. This
> document is large, so it would be a waste of time to convert back to
> Word and recreate.
>
> I doubt that my client is going to want to procure a separate
> software package to assist with remediation (sorry, Duff).
>
> What my client wants to do is to be able to generate PDF documents
> properly (using Adobe's tools), and at the moment, what's in question
> is how to implement footnotes.
>
> In case this is clearer than what I originally wrote, what I'd like
> to know, specifically, is:
>
> -- Is it possible to link a footnote at the bottom of a page with its
> corresponding text (in the document body) so as to give the user the
> choice to navigate between the two?
>
> -- If this kind of linked navigation is not possible, and I do want
> the notes at the bottom of the page (which is what the convention in
> the industry of my client is), what's the next best practice?
>
> I suppose one could bookmark one's place, read the note, and then
> return to reading the body text via the bookmark, but that seems like
> a work-around.
>
> If you read the Accessify Forum post I initially cited, you'll see
> that there are conflicting opinions about how this is to be done, and
> my hope is that, since 2008, Adobe may have made this easier.
>
> As I suggested earlier, I'd really love to see a PDF document in
> which footnotes are implemented in the best way that Adobe tools,
> alone, permit.
>
> Thanks, and I regret that this seems to require so much explanation.
> I hoped it'd be fairly simple.
>
> Jennifer
> <snip previous messages in thread>
>
> > >

From: Jennifer Sutton
Date: Sun, May 27 2012 11:17PM
Subject: Re: making footnotes accessible in PDF documents
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Greetings:

Thanks for your post, Ryan. I believe Duff's response, along with
additional responses I received off-list, will enable me to clearly
outline choices to my client.

Converting an already-remediated 133-page document from PDF back to
Word, and then back to PDF again, just to fix the footnotes, isn't an
option, as far as I am concerned.

Also, I guess I wasn't clear, but writing *ANY* Javascript isn't an
option. These folks want to use Adobe's tools and not have to insert
Javascript in each of the documents they produce. I'm sure they want
to make the best choice (in terms of how Adobe EXPECTS footnotes to
be implemented) and stick with it among their documents -- both so
that they can manage their site visitors expectations and so that if
they want to update documents, when there's additional PDF
functionality, they'll be able to develop a stream-lined process to
update, as resources permit.

In my experience, while we might want to think that convention comes
down to a person's preference, that's rarely realistic in a business
setting. Rather, I find that document-preparation conventions
typically come down to the producer's preferences, which TRY to take
industry preferences and the expectations of those in a particular
field into account. It's a producer's responsibility to manage
readers' expectations of how documents will work for everyone.

Thanks to everyone for their time over this holiday weekend. Please
enjoy the rest of it.

Best,
Jennifer