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Number of posts in this thread: 15 (In chronological order)

From: Bruna Poletto Salton
Date: Tue, Feb 26 2013 6:59AM
Subject: Lightbox accessibility
No previous message | Next message →

Hello everyone,

I was wondering if there is a way to make lightboxes accessible.
I coordinate a team that evaluates accessibility on Brazilian government
websites and we have encounter lightboxes quite often and they are always
an issue for accessibility.

Thank you,

--
*Bruna Poletto Salton*
Instituto Federal de Educação, Ciência e Tecnologia do Rio Grande do Sul -
IFRS
Pró-Reitoria de Extensão - PROEX
Projeto de Acessibilidade Virtual
www.ifrs.edu.br

From: Felix Zapata Berlinches
Date: Tue, Feb 26 2013 7:05AM
Subject: Re: Lightbox accessibility
← Previous message | Next message →

hi all, maybe this link
http://www.nczonline.net/blog/2013/02/12/making-an-accessible-dialog-box/will
be useful for your question...

bye

2013/2/26 Bruna Poletto Salton < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >

> Hello everyone,
>
> I was wondering if there is a way to make lightboxes accessible.
> I coordinate a team that evaluates accessibility on Brazilian government
> websites and we have encounter lightboxes quite often and they are always
> an issue for accessibility.
>
> Thank you,
>
> --
> *Bruna Poletto Salton*
> Instituto Federal de Educação, Ciência e Tecnologia do Rio Grande do Sul -
> IFRS
> Pró-Reitoria de Extensão - PROEX
> Projeto de Acessibilidade Virtual
> www.ifrs.edu.br
> > > >

From: Bruna Poletto Salton
Date: Wed, Feb 27 2013 6:12AM
Subject: Re: Lightbox accessibility
← Previous message | Next message →

Thank you. It was very helpful indeed.




On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 11:05 AM, Felix Zapata Berlinches <
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> hi all, maybe this link
>
> http://www.nczonline.net/blog/2013/02/12/making-an-accessible-dialog-box/will
> be useful for your question...
>
> bye
>
> 2013/2/26 Bruna Poletto Salton < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>
> > Hello everyone,
> >
> > I was wondering if there is a way to make lightboxes accessible.
> > I coordinate a team that evaluates accessibility on Brazilian government
> > websites and we have encounter lightboxes quite often and they are always
> > an issue for accessibility.
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> > --
> > *Bruna Poletto Salton*
> > Instituto Federal de Educação, Ciência e Tecnologia do Rio Grande do Sul
> -
> > IFRS
> > Pró-Reitoria de Extensão - PROEX
> > Projeto de Acessibilidade Virtual
> > www.ifrs.edu.br
> > > > > > > >
> > > >

From: Detlev Fischer
Date: Wed, Feb 27 2013 7:58AM
Subject: Re: Lightbox accessibility
← Previous message | Next message →

On mobile, support is not so good - both regarding the pick-up of aria roles like role=dialog and also regarding focus management when using Android/TalkBack or iOS/VoiceOver (I tested a version based on the scripts in the example by Nicholas C. Zakas with a number of screen readers).
Not quite sure whether that example is fully relevant to your use case but I thought I might throw in the link anyway:
http://3needs.org/en/testing/code/role-dialog.html

Regards, Detlev

From: Felix Zapata Berlinches
Date: Wed, Feb 27 2013 8:18AM
Subject: Re: Lightbox accessibility
← Previous message | Next message →

about lightboxes and mobiles "Lightboxes don’t work for small screens."
http://bradfrostweb.com/blog/post/conditional-lightbox/

2013/2/27 Detlev Fischer < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >

> On mobile, support is not so good - both regarding the pick-up of aria
> roles like role=dialog and also regarding focus management when using
> Android/TalkBack or iOS/VoiceOver (I tested a version based on the scripts
> in the example by Nicholas C. Zakas with a number of screen readers).
> Not quite sure whether that example is fully relevant to your use case but
> I thought I might throw in the link anyway:
> http://3needs.org/en/testing/code/role-dialog.html
>
> Regards, Detlev
>
>
> --
> Detlev Fischer
> testkreis c/o feld.wald.wiese
> Thedestr. 2, 22767 Hamburg
>
> Mobil +49 (0)1577 170 73 84
> Tel +49 (0)40 439 10 68-3
> Fax +49 (0)40 439 10 68-5
>
> http://www.testkreis.de
> Beratung, Tests und Schulungen für barrierefreie Websites
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Date: 27.02.2013 14:12:50
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Lightbox accessibility
>
>
> > Thank you. It was very helpful indeed.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 11:05 AM, Felix Zapata Berlinches <
> > = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> >
> >> hi all, maybe this link
> >>
> >>
> http://www.nczonline.net/blog/2013/02/12/making-an-accessible-dialog-box/will
> >> be useful for your question...
> >>
> >> bye
> >>
> >> 2013/2/26 Bruna Poletto Salton < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> >>
> >> > Hello everyone,
> >> >
> >> > I was wondering if there is a way to make lightboxes accessible.
> >> > I coordinate a team that evaluates accessibility on Brazilian
> government
> >> > websites and we have encounter lightboxes quite often and they are
> always
> >> > an issue for accessibility.
> >> >
> >> > Thank you,
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > *Bruna Poletto Salton*
> >> > Instituto Federal de Educação, Ciência e Tecnologia do Rio Grande do
> Sul
> >> -
> >> > IFRS
> >> > Pró-Reitoria de Extensão - PROEX
> >> > Projeto de Acessibilidade Virtual
> >> > www.ifrs.edu.br
> >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >
> >> > >> > >> > >>
> > > > > > >
> > > >

From: Bryan Garaventa
Date: Wed, Feb 27 2013 9:55AM
Subject: Re: Lightbox accessibility
← Previous message | Next message →

Is the concern here that lightboxes on mobile device screens aren't
accessible?

I've tested my lightbox at
http://whatsock.com/modules/standard_dynamic_control_templates/demo.htm
on iOS, and it is accessible. (Just click the Guide Me button on the banner
to dismiss it. The Lightbox button is below.)

role=dialog doesn't actually provide any additional value for screen reader
users, especially in mobile devices. I had this discussion here not too long
ago. If you use aria-hidden on the background content, it disappears so that
all you see is the modal content using a screen reader. role=dialog only
appears to be useful when you want to capture certain keys like Escape, the
Enter key, or the arrow keys, but not really for anything else. In general,
I don't recommend using it.

I'm working on an accessibility technical style guide that will hopefully
clarify all of these things, because I seem to keep having to repeat the
same things over and over.




----- Original Message -----
From: "Felix Zapata Berlinches" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
To: "WebAIM Discussion List" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 7:18 AM
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Lightbox accessibility


about lightboxes and mobiles "Lightboxes don’t work for small screens."
http://bradfrostweb.com/blog/post/conditional-lightbox/

2013/2/27 Detlev Fischer < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >

> On mobile, support is not so good - both regarding the pick-up of aria
> roles like role=dialog and also regarding focus management when using
> Android/TalkBack or iOS/VoiceOver (I tested a version based on the
> scripts
> in the example by Nicholas C. Zakas with a number of screen readers).
> Not quite sure whether that example is fully relevant to your use case but
> I thought I might throw in the link anyway:
> http://3needs.org/en/testing/code/role-dialog.html
>
> Regards, Detlev
>
>
> --
> Detlev Fischer
> testkreis c/o feld.wald.wiese
> Thedestr. 2, 22767 Hamburg
>
> Mobil +49 (0)1577 170 73 84
> Tel +49 (0)40 439 10 68-3
> Fax +49 (0)40 439 10 68-5
>
> http://www.testkreis.de
> Beratung, Tests und Schulungen für barrierefreie Websites
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Date: 27.02.2013 14:12:50
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Lightbox accessibility
>
>
> > Thank you. It was very helpful indeed.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 11:05 AM, Felix Zapata Berlinches <
> > = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> >
> >> hi all, maybe this link
> >>
> >>
> http://www.nczonline.net/blog/2013/02/12/making-an-accessible-dialog-box/will
> >> be useful for your question...
> >>
> >> bye
> >>
> >> 2013/2/26 Bruna Poletto Salton < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> >>
> >> > Hello everyone,
> >> >
> >> > I was wondering if there is a way to make lightboxes accessible.
> >> > I coordinate a team that evaluates accessibility on Brazilian
> government
> >> > websites and we have encounter lightboxes quite often and they are
> always
> >> > an issue for accessibility.
> >> >
> >> > Thank you,
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > *Bruna Poletto Salton*
> >> > Instituto Federal de Educação, Ciência e Tecnologia do Rio Grande do
> Sul
> >> -
> >> > IFRS
> >> > Pró-Reitoria de Extensão - PROEX
> >> > Projeto de Acessibilidade Virtual
> >> > www.ifrs.edu.br
> >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >
> >> > >> > >> > >>
> > > > > > >
> > > >

From: Detlev Fischer
Date: Wed, Feb 27 2013 10:09AM
Subject: Re: Lightbox accessibility
← Previous message | Next message →

My main concern was not that role=dialog is not passed through but that focus handling (moving focus to box, moving it back to triggering element on closing box) did not seem to work under VoiceOver and TalkBack as it does on desktop browsers, at least with the scripts I was using. Other scripts may do a better job though.
Detlev


On 27 Feb 2013, at 17:55, Bryan Garaventa wrote:

> Is the concern here that lightboxes on mobile device screens aren't
> accessible?
>
> I've tested my lightbox at
> http://whatsock.com/modules/standard_dynamic_control_templates/demo.htm
> on iOS, and it is accessible. (Just click the Guide Me button on the banner
> to dismiss it. The Lightbox button is below.)
>
> role=dialog doesn't actually provide any additional value for screen reader
> users, especially in mobile devices. I had this discussion here not too long
> ago. If you use aria-hidden on the background content, it disappears so that
> all you see is the modal content using a screen reader. role=dialog only
> appears to be useful when you want to capture certain keys like Escape, the
> Enter key, or the arrow keys, but not really for anything else. In general,
> I don't recommend using it.
>
> I'm working on an accessibility technical style guide that will hopefully
> clarify all of these things, because I seem to keep having to repeat the
> same things over and over.
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Felix Zapata Berlinches" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> To: "WebAIM Discussion List" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 7:18 AM
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Lightbox accessibility
>
>
> about lightboxes and mobiles "Lightboxes don’t work for small screens."
> http://bradfrostweb.com/blog/post/conditional-lightbox/
>
> 2013/2/27 Detlev Fischer < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>
>> On mobile, support is not so good - both regarding the pick-up of aria
>> roles like role=dialog and also regarding focus management when using
>> Android/TalkBack or iOS/VoiceOver (I tested a version based on the
>> scripts
>> in the example by Nicholas C. Zakas with a number of screen readers).
>> Not quite sure whether that example is fully relevant to your use case but
>> I thought I might throw in the link anyway:
>> http://3needs.org/en/testing/code/role-dialog.html
>>
>> Regards, Detlev
>>
>>
>> --
>> Detlev Fischer
>> testkreis c/o feld.wald.wiese
>> Thedestr. 2, 22767 Hamburg
>>
>> Mobil +49 (0)1577 170 73 84
>> Tel +49 (0)40 439 10 68-3
>> Fax +49 (0)40 439 10 68-5
>>
>> http://www.testkreis.de
>> Beratung, Tests und Schulungen für barrierefreie Websites
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>> Date: 27.02.2013 14:12:50
>> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Lightbox accessibility
>>
>>
>>> Thank you. It was very helpful indeed.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 11:05 AM, Felix Zapata Berlinches <
>>> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>>>
>>>> hi all, maybe this link
>>>>
>>>>
>> http://www.nczonline.net/blog/2013/02/12/making-an-accessible-dialog-box/will
>>>> be useful for your question...
>>>>
>>>> bye
>>>>
>>>> 2013/2/26 Bruna Poletto Salton < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>>>>
>>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>>
>>>>> I was wondering if there is a way to make lightboxes accessible.
>>>>> I coordinate a team that evaluates accessibility on Brazilian
>> government
>>>>> websites and we have encounter lightboxes quite often and they are
>> always
>>>>> an issue for accessibility.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> *Bruna Poletto Salton*
>>>>> Instituto Federal de Educação, Ciência e Tecnologia do Rio Grande do
>> Sul
>>>> -
>>>>> IFRS
>>>>> Pró-Reitoria de Extensão - PROEX
>>>>> Projeto de Acessibilidade Virtual
>>>>> www.ifrs.edu.br
>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>
>>> >>> >>> >>
>> >> >> >>
> > > >
> > > --
Detlev Fischer
testkreis - das Accessibility-Team von feld.wald.wiese
c/o feld.wald.wiese
Thedestraße 2
22767 Hamburg

Tel +49 (0)40 439 10 68-3
Mobil +49 (0)1577 170 73 84
Fax +49 (0)40 439 10 68-5

http://www.testkreis.de
Beratung, Tests und Schulungen für barrierefreie Websites

From: Bryan Garaventa
Date: Wed, Feb 27 2013 10:22AM
Subject: Re: Lightbox accessibility
← Previous message | Next message →

I see what you mean. Focus redirection in touch screen devices has no impact
on accessibility unless an external keyboard is being used. The act of
moving the finger across the screen changes the focus automatically so there
is no way to know where literal focus has moved to without physically
grabbing the finger and pointing to it, which would be a neat trick if you
can do this programmatically :)



----- Original Message -----
From: "Detlev Fischer" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
To: "WebAIM Discussion List" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 9:09 AM
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Lightbox accessibility


My main concern was not that role=dialog is not passed through but that
focus handling (moving focus to box, moving it back to triggering element on
closing box) did not seem to work under VoiceOver and TalkBack as it does on
desktop browsers, at least with the scripts I was using. Other scripts may
do a better job though.
Detlev


On 27 Feb 2013, at 17:55, Bryan Garaventa wrote:

> Is the concern here that lightboxes on mobile device screens aren't
> accessible?
>
> I've tested my lightbox at
> http://whatsock.com/modules/standard_dynamic_control_templates/demo.htm
> on iOS, and it is accessible. (Just click the Guide Me button on the
> banner
> to dismiss it. The Lightbox button is below.)
>
> role=dialog doesn't actually provide any additional value for screen
> reader
> users, especially in mobile devices. I had this discussion here not too
> long
> ago. If you use aria-hidden on the background content, it disappears so
> that
> all you see is the modal content using a screen reader. role=dialog only
> appears to be useful when you want to capture certain keys like Escape,
> the
> Enter key, or the arrow keys, but not really for anything else. In
> general,
> I don't recommend using it.
>
> I'm working on an accessibility technical style guide that will hopefully
> clarify all of these things, because I seem to keep having to repeat the
> same things over and over.
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Felix Zapata Berlinches" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> To: "WebAIM Discussion List" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 7:18 AM
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Lightbox accessibility
>
>
> about lightboxes and mobiles "Lightboxes don’t work for small screens."
> http://bradfrostweb.com/blog/post/conditional-lightbox/
>
> 2013/2/27 Detlev Fischer < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>
>> On mobile, support is not so good - both regarding the pick-up of aria
>> roles like role=dialog and also regarding focus management when using
>> Android/TalkBack or iOS/VoiceOver (I tested a version based on the
>> scripts
>> in the example by Nicholas C. Zakas with a number of screen readers).
>> Not quite sure whether that example is fully relevant to your use case
>> but
>> I thought I might throw in the link anyway:
>> http://3needs.org/en/testing/code/role-dialog.html
>>
>> Regards, Detlev
>>
>>
>> --
>> Detlev Fischer
>> testkreis c/o feld.wald.wiese
>> Thedestr. 2, 22767 Hamburg
>>
>> Mobil +49 (0)1577 170 73 84
>> Tel +49 (0)40 439 10 68-3
>> Fax +49 (0)40 439 10 68-5
>>
>> http://www.testkreis.de
>> Beratung, Tests und Schulungen für barrierefreie Websites
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>> Date: 27.02.2013 14:12:50
>> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Lightbox accessibility
>>
>>
>>> Thank you. It was very helpful indeed.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 11:05 AM, Felix Zapata Berlinches <
>>> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>>>
>>>> hi all, maybe this link
>>>>
>>>>
>> http://www.nczonline.net/blog/2013/02/12/making-an-accessible-dialog-box/will
>>>> be useful for your question...
>>>>
>>>> bye
>>>>
>>>> 2013/2/26 Bruna Poletto Salton < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>>>>
>>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>>
>>>>> I was wondering if there is a way to make lightboxes accessible.
>>>>> I coordinate a team that evaluates accessibility on Brazilian
>> government
>>>>> websites and we have encounter lightboxes quite often and they are
>> always
>>>>> an issue for accessibility.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> *Bruna Poletto Salton*
>>>>> Instituto Federal de Educação, Ciência e Tecnologia do Rio Grande do
>> Sul
>>>> -
>>>>> IFRS
>>>>> Pró-Reitoria de Extensão - PROEX
>>>>> Projeto de Acessibilidade Virtual
>>>>> www.ifrs.edu.br
>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>
>>> >>> >>> >>
>> >> >> >>
> > > >
> > > --
Detlev Fischer
testkreis - das Accessibility-Team von feld.wald.wiese
c/o feld.wald.wiese
Thedestraße 2
22767 Hamburg

Tel +49 (0)40 439 10 68-3
Mobil +49 (0)1577 170 73 84
Fax +49 (0)40 439 10 68-5

http://www.testkreis.de
Beratung, Tests und Schulungen für barrierefreie Websites

From: Detlev Fischer
Date: Wed, Feb 27 2013 10:32AM
Subject: Re: Lightbox accessibility
← Previous message | Next message →

I wasn't talking of external keyboards, but of swipe navigation (left to right to 'tab' through the content, right to left to 'tab' backwards). In touch exploration managing focus obviously makes no sense.
Detlev

On 27 Feb 2013, at 18:22, Bryan Garaventa wrote:

> I see what you mean. Focus redirection in touch screen devices has no impact
> on accessibility unless an external keyboard is being used. The act of
> moving the finger across the screen changes the focus automatically so there
> is no way to know where literal focus has moved to without physically
> grabbing the finger and pointing to it, which would be a neat trick if you
> can do this programmatically :)
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Detlev Fischer" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> To: "WebAIM Discussion List" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 9:09 AM
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Lightbox accessibility
>
>
> My main concern was not that role=dialog is not passed through but that
> focus handling (moving focus to box, moving it back to triggering element on
> closing box) did not seem to work under VoiceOver and TalkBack as it does on
> desktop browsers, at least with the scripts I was using. Other scripts may
> do a better job though.
> Detlev
>
>
> On 27 Feb 2013, at 17:55, Bryan Garaventa wrote:
>
>> Is the concern here that lightboxes on mobile device screens aren't
>> accessible?
>>
>> I've tested my lightbox at
>> http://whatsock.com/modules/standard_dynamic_control_templates/demo.htm
>> on iOS, and it is accessible. (Just click the Guide Me button on the
>> banner
>> to dismiss it. The Lightbox button is below.)
>>
>> role=dialog doesn't actually provide any additional value for screen
>> reader
>> users, especially in mobile devices. I had this discussion here not too
>> long
>> ago. If you use aria-hidden on the background content, it disappears so
>> that
>> all you see is the modal content using a screen reader. role=dialog only
>> appears to be useful when you want to capture certain keys like Escape,
>> the
>> Enter key, or the arrow keys, but not really for anything else. In
>> general,
>> I don't recommend using it.
>>
>> I'm working on an accessibility technical style guide that will hopefully
>> clarify all of these things, because I seem to keep having to repeat the
>> same things over and over.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Felix Zapata Berlinches" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>> To: "WebAIM Discussion List" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 7:18 AM
>> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Lightbox accessibility
>>
>>
>> about lightboxes and mobiles "Lightboxes don’t work for small screens."
>> http://bradfrostweb.com/blog/post/conditional-lightbox/
>>
>> 2013/2/27 Detlev Fischer < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>>
>>> On mobile, support is not so good - both regarding the pick-up of aria
>>> roles like role=dialog and also regarding focus management when using
>>> Android/TalkBack or iOS/VoiceOver (I tested a version based on the
>>> scripts
>>> in the example by Nicholas C. Zakas with a number of screen readers).
>>> Not quite sure whether that example is fully relevant to your use case
>>> but
>>> I thought I might throw in the link anyway:
>>> http://3needs.org/en/testing/code/role-dialog.html
>>>
>>> Regards, Detlev
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Detlev Fischer
>>> testkreis c/o feld.wald.wiese
>>> Thedestr. 2, 22767 Hamburg
>>>
>>> Mobil +49 (0)1577 170 73 84
>>> Tel +49 (0)40 439 10 68-3
>>> Fax +49 (0)40 439 10 68-5
>>>
>>> http://www.testkreis.de
>>> Beratung, Tests und Schulungen für barrierefreie Websites
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>>> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>>> Date: 27.02.2013 14:12:50
>>> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Lightbox accessibility
>>>
>>>
>>>> Thank you. It was very helpful indeed.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 11:05 AM, Felix Zapata Berlinches <
>>>> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> hi all, maybe this link
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> http://www.nczonline.net/blog/2013/02/12/making-an-accessible-dialog-box/will
>>>>> be useful for your question...
>>>>>
>>>>> bye
>>>>>
>>>>> 2013/2/26 Bruna Poletto Salton < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I was wondering if there is a way to make lightboxes accessible.
>>>>>> I coordinate a team that evaluates accessibility on Brazilian
>>> government
>>>>>> websites and we have encounter lightboxes quite often and they are
>>> always
>>>>>> an issue for accessibility.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> *Bruna Poletto Salton*
>>>>>> Instituto Federal de Educação, Ciência e Tecnologia do Rio Grande do
>>> Sul
>>>>> -
>>>>>> IFRS
>>>>>> Pró-Reitoria de Extensão - PROEX
>>>>>> Projeto de Acessibilidade Virtual
>>>>>> www.ifrs.edu.br
>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>
>>> >>> >>> >>>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >
> --
> Detlev Fischer
> testkreis - das Accessibility-Team von feld.wald.wiese
> c/o feld.wald.wiese
> Thedestraße 2
> 22767 Hamburg
>
> Tel +49 (0)40 439 10 68-3
> Mobil +49 (0)1577 170 73 84
> Fax +49 (0)40 439 10 68-5
>
> http://www.testkreis.de
> Beratung, Tests und Schulungen für barrierefreie Websites
>
>
>
>
> > > >
> > > --
Detlev Fischer
testkreis - das Accessibility-Team von feld.wald.wiese
c/o feld.wald.wiese
Thedestraße 2
22767 Hamburg

Tel +49 (0)40 439 10 68-3
Mobil +49 (0)1577 170 73 84
Fax +49 (0)40 439 10 68-5

http://www.testkreis.de
Beratung, Tests und Schulungen für barrierefreie Websites

From: Bryan Garaventa
Date: Wed, Feb 27 2013 12:33PM
Subject: Re: Lightbox accessibility
← Previous message | Next message →

The only way that I'm away of for changing the view for a scrollable region
such as this, is to use CSS and adjust the visible viewport of the container
element (scrollTop and scrollLeft), which will scroll the desired area into
view.

This typically works in iOS because Voiceover can only detect what is in the
visible viewport, so scrolling the region into view makes the screen reader
detect it for navigation.



----- Original Message -----
From: "Detlev Fischer" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
To: "WebAIM Discussion List" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 9:32 AM
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Lightbox accessibility


I wasn't talking of external keyboards, but of swipe navigation (left to
right to 'tab' through the content, right to left to 'tab' backwards). In
touch exploration managing focus obviously makes no sense.
Detlev

On 27 Feb 2013, at 18:22, Bryan Garaventa wrote:

> I see what you mean. Focus redirection in touch screen devices has no
> impact
> on accessibility unless an external keyboard is being used. The act of
> moving the finger across the screen changes the focus automatically so
> there
> is no way to know where literal focus has moved to without physically
> grabbing the finger and pointing to it, which would be a neat trick if you
> can do this programmatically :)
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Detlev Fischer" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> To: "WebAIM Discussion List" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 9:09 AM
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Lightbox accessibility
>
>
> My main concern was not that role=dialog is not passed through but that
> focus handling (moving focus to box, moving it back to triggering element
> on
> closing box) did not seem to work under VoiceOver and TalkBack as it does
> on
> desktop browsers, at least with the scripts I was using. Other scripts may
> do a better job though.
> Detlev
>
>
> On 27 Feb 2013, at 17:55, Bryan Garaventa wrote:
>
>> Is the concern here that lightboxes on mobile device screens aren't
>> accessible?
>>
>> I've tested my lightbox at
>> http://whatsock.com/modules/standard_dynamic_control_templates/demo.htm
>> on iOS, and it is accessible. (Just click the Guide Me button on the
>> banner
>> to dismiss it. The Lightbox button is below.)
>>
>> role=dialog doesn't actually provide any additional value for screen
>> reader
>> users, especially in mobile devices. I had this discussion here not too
>> long
>> ago. If you use aria-hidden on the background content, it disappears so
>> that
>> all you see is the modal content using a screen reader. role=dialog only
>> appears to be useful when you want to capture certain keys like Escape,
>> the
>> Enter key, or the arrow keys, but not really for anything else. In
>> general,
>> I don't recommend using it.
>>
>> I'm working on an accessibility technical style guide that will hopefully
>> clarify all of these things, because I seem to keep having to repeat the
>> same things over and over.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Felix Zapata Berlinches" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>> To: "WebAIM Discussion List" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 7:18 AM
>> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Lightbox accessibility
>>
>>
>> about lightboxes and mobiles "Lightboxes don’t work for small screens."
>> http://bradfrostweb.com/blog/post/conditional-lightbox/
>>
>> 2013/2/27 Detlev Fischer < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>>
>>> On mobile, support is not so good - both regarding the pick-up of aria
>>> roles like role=dialog and also regarding focus management when using
>>> Android/TalkBack or iOS/VoiceOver (I tested a version based on the
>>> scripts
>>> in the example by Nicholas C. Zakas with a number of screen readers).
>>> Not quite sure whether that example is fully relevant to your use case
>>> but
>>> I thought I might throw in the link anyway:
>>> http://3needs.org/en/testing/code/role-dialog.html
>>>
>>> Regards, Detlev
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Detlev Fischer
>>> testkreis c/o feld.wald.wiese
>>> Thedestr. 2, 22767 Hamburg
>>>
>>> Mobil +49 (0)1577 170 73 84
>>> Tel +49 (0)40 439 10 68-3
>>> Fax +49 (0)40 439 10 68-5
>>>
>>> http://www.testkreis.de
>>> Beratung, Tests und Schulungen für barrierefreie Websites
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>>> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>>> Date: 27.02.2013 14:12:50
>>> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Lightbox accessibility
>>>
>>>
>>>> Thank you. It was very helpful indeed.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 11:05 AM, Felix Zapata Berlinches <
>>>> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> hi all, maybe this link
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> http://www.nczonline.net/blog/2013/02/12/making-an-accessible-dialog-box/will
>>>>> be useful for your question...
>>>>>
>>>>> bye
>>>>>
>>>>> 2013/2/26 Bruna Poletto Salton < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I was wondering if there is a way to make lightboxes accessible.
>>>>>> I coordinate a team that evaluates accessibility on Brazilian
>>> government
>>>>>> websites and we have encounter lightboxes quite often and they are
>>> always
>>>>>> an issue for accessibility.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> *Bruna Poletto Salton*
>>>>>> Instituto Federal de Educação, Ciência e Tecnologia do Rio Grande do
>>> Sul
>>>>> -
>>>>>> IFRS
>>>>>> Pró-Reitoria de Extensão - PROEX
>>>>>> Projeto de Acessibilidade Virtual
>>>>>> www.ifrs.edu.br
>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>
>>> >>> >>> >>>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >
> --
> Detlev Fischer
> testkreis - das Accessibility-Team von feld.wald.wiese
> c/o feld.wald.wiese
> Thedestraße 2
> 22767 Hamburg
>
> Tel +49 (0)40 439 10 68-3
> Mobil +49 (0)1577 170 73 84
> Fax +49 (0)40 439 10 68-5
>
> http://www.testkreis.de
> Beratung, Tests und Schulungen für barrierefreie Websites
>
>
>
>
> > > >
> > > --
Detlev Fischer
testkreis - das Accessibility-Team von feld.wald.wiese
c/o feld.wald.wiese
Thedestraße 2
22767 Hamburg

Tel +49 (0)40 439 10 68-3
Mobil +49 (0)1577 170 73 84
Fax +49 (0)40 439 10 68-5

http://www.testkreis.de
Beratung, Tests und Schulungen für barrierefreie Websites

From: Bryan Garaventa
Date: Wed, Feb 27 2013 12:50PM
Subject: Re: Lightbox accessibility
← Previous message | Next message →

I meant 'aware of'. Sorry about that.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bryan Garaventa" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
To: "WebAIM Discussion List" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 11:33 AM
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Lightbox accessibility


The only way that I'm away of for changing the view for a scrollable region
such as this, is to use CSS and adjust the visible viewport of the container
element (scrollTop and scrollLeft), which will scroll the desired area into
view.

This typically works in iOS because Voiceover can only detect what is in the
visible viewport, so scrolling the region into view makes the screen reader
detect it for navigation.



----- Original Message -----
From: "Detlev Fischer" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
To: "WebAIM Discussion List" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 9:32 AM
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Lightbox accessibility


I wasn't talking of external keyboards, but of swipe navigation (left to
right to 'tab' through the content, right to left to 'tab' backwards). In
touch exploration managing focus obviously makes no sense.
Detlev

On 27 Feb 2013, at 18:22, Bryan Garaventa wrote:

> I see what you mean. Focus redirection in touch screen devices has no
> impact
> on accessibility unless an external keyboard is being used. The act of
> moving the finger across the screen changes the focus automatically so
> there
> is no way to know where literal focus has moved to without physically
> grabbing the finger and pointing to it, which would be a neat trick if you
> can do this programmatically :)
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Detlev Fischer" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> To: "WebAIM Discussion List" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 9:09 AM
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Lightbox accessibility
>
>
> My main concern was not that role=dialog is not passed through but that
> focus handling (moving focus to box, moving it back to triggering element
> on
> closing box) did not seem to work under VoiceOver and TalkBack as it does
> on
> desktop browsers, at least with the scripts I was using. Other scripts may
> do a better job though.
> Detlev
>
>
> On 27 Feb 2013, at 17:55, Bryan Garaventa wrote:
>
>> Is the concern here that lightboxes on mobile device screens aren't
>> accessible?
>>
>> I've tested my lightbox at
>> http://whatsock.com/modules/standard_dynamic_control_templates/demo.htm
>> on iOS, and it is accessible. (Just click the Guide Me button on the
>> banner
>> to dismiss it. The Lightbox button is below.)
>>
>> role=dialog doesn't actually provide any additional value for screen
>> reader
>> users, especially in mobile devices. I had this discussion here not too
>> long
>> ago. If you use aria-hidden on the background content, it disappears so
>> that
>> all you see is the modal content using a screen reader. role=dialog only
>> appears to be useful when you want to capture certain keys like Escape,
>> the
>> Enter key, or the arrow keys, but not really for anything else. In
>> general,
>> I don't recommend using it.
>>
>> I'm working on an accessibility technical style guide that will hopefully
>> clarify all of these things, because I seem to keep having to repeat the
>> same things over and over.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Felix Zapata Berlinches" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>> To: "WebAIM Discussion List" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 7:18 AM
>> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Lightbox accessibility
>>
>>
>> about lightboxes and mobiles "Lightboxes don’t work for small screens."
>> http://bradfrostweb.com/blog/post/conditional-lightbox/
>>
>> 2013/2/27 Detlev Fischer < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>>
>>> On mobile, support is not so good - both regarding the pick-up of aria
>>> roles like role=dialog and also regarding focus management when using
>>> Android/TalkBack or iOS/VoiceOver (I tested a version based on the
>>> scripts
>>> in the example by Nicholas C. Zakas with a number of screen readers).
>>> Not quite sure whether that example is fully relevant to your use case
>>> but
>>> I thought I might throw in the link anyway:
>>> http://3needs.org/en/testing/code/role-dialog.html
>>>
>>> Regards, Detlev
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Detlev Fischer
>>> testkreis c/o feld.wald.wiese
>>> Thedestr. 2, 22767 Hamburg
>>>
>>> Mobil +49 (0)1577 170 73 84
>>> Tel +49 (0)40 439 10 68-3
>>> Fax +49 (0)40 439 10 68-5
>>>
>>> http://www.testkreis.de
>>> Beratung, Tests und Schulungen für barrierefreie Websites
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>>> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>>> Date: 27.02.2013 14:12:50
>>> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Lightbox accessibility
>>>
>>>
>>>> Thank you. It was very helpful indeed.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 11:05 AM, Felix Zapata Berlinches <
>>>> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> hi all, maybe this link
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> http://www.nczonline.net/blog/2013/02/12/making-an-accessible-dialog-box/will
>>>>> be useful for your question...
>>>>>
>>>>> bye
>>>>>
>>>>> 2013/2/26 Bruna Poletto Salton < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I was wondering if there is a way to make lightboxes accessible.
>>>>>> I coordinate a team that evaluates accessibility on Brazilian
>>> government
>>>>>> websites and we have encounter lightboxes quite often and they are
>>> always
>>>>>> an issue for accessibility.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> *Bruna Poletto Salton*
>>>>>> Instituto Federal de Educação, Ciência e Tecnologia do Rio Grande do
>>> Sul
>>>>> -
>>>>>> IFRS
>>>>>> Pró-Reitoria de Extensão - PROEX
>>>>>> Projeto de Acessibilidade Virtual
>>>>>> www.ifrs.edu.br
>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>
>>> >>> >>> >>>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >
> --
> Detlev Fischer
> testkreis - das Accessibility-Team von feld.wald.wiese
> c/o feld.wald.wiese
> Thedestraße 2
> 22767 Hamburg
>
> Tel +49 (0)40 439 10 68-3
> Mobil +49 (0)1577 170 73 84
> Fax +49 (0)40 439 10 68-5
>
> http://www.testkreis.de
> Beratung, Tests und Schulungen für barrierefreie Websites
>
>
>
>
> > > >
> > > --
Detlev Fischer
testkreis - das Accessibility-Team von feld.wald.wiese
c/o feld.wald.wiese
Thedestraße 2
22767 Hamburg

Tel +49 (0)40 439 10 68-3
Mobil +49 (0)1577 170 73 84
Fax +49 (0)40 439 10 68-5

http://www.testkreis.de
Beratung, Tests und Schulungen für barrierefreie Websites

From: Bruna Poletto Salton
Date: Wed, Feb 27 2013 1:13PM
Subject: Re: Lightbox accessibility
← Previous message | Next message →

Thank you all for the discussion on this topic.
In our case, our main concern is whether or not we should recommend that
developers avoid using this element. We are updating the Brazilian Web
Accessibility Guidelines for Governmental Websites. So I believe
this is still something we have to think about.

Regards,
Bruna

On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 11:58 AM, Detlev Fischer <
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> On mobile, support is not so good - both regarding the pick-up of aria
> roles like role=dialog and also regarding focus management when using
> Android/TalkBack or iOS/VoiceOver (I tested a version based on the scripts
> in the example by Nicholas C. Zakas with a number of screen readers).
> Not quite sure whether that example is fully relevant to your use case but
> I thought I might throw in the link anyway:
> http://3needs.org/en/testing/code/role-dialog.html
>
> Regards, Detlev
>
>
> --
> Detlev Fischer
> testkreis c/o feld.wald.wiese
> Thedestr. 2, 22767 Hamburg
>
> Mobil +49 (0)1577 170 73 84
> Tel +49 (0)40 439 10 68-3
> Fax +49 (0)40 439 10 68-5
>
> http://www.testkreis.de
> Beratung, Tests und Schulungen für barrierefreie Websites
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Date: 27.02.2013 14:12:50
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Lightbox accessibility
>
>
> > Thank you. It was very helpful indeed.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 11:05 AM, Felix Zapata Berlinches <
> > = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> >
> >> hi all, maybe this link
> >>
> >>
> http://www.nczonline.net/blog/2013/02/12/making-an-accessible-dialog-box/will
> >> be useful for your question...
> >>
> >> bye
> >>
> >> 2013/2/26 Bruna Poletto Salton < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> >>
> >> > Hello everyone,
> >> >
> >> > I was wondering if there is a way to make lightboxes accessible.
> >> > I coordinate a team that evaluates accessibility on Brazilian
> government
> >> > websites and we have encounter lightboxes quite often and they are
> always
> >> > an issue for accessibility.
> >> >
> >> > Thank you,
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > *Bruna Poletto Salton*
> >> > Instituto Federal de Educação, Ciência e Tecnologia do Rio Grande do
> Sul
> >> -
> >> > IFRS
> >> > Pró-Reitoria de Extensão - PROEX
> >> > Projeto de Acessibilidade Virtual
> >> > www.ifrs.edu.br
> >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >
> >> > >> > >> > >>
> > > > > > >
> > > >

From: Bryan Garaventa
Date: Thu, Feb 28 2013 6:15PM
Subject: Re: Lightbox accessibility
← Previous message | Next message →

Avoid using lightboxes as a general best practice?

I don't think this is necessary, because lightboxes can easily be made
accessible.

It's not the component type that makes something inaccessible, but the way
it's programmed. You can do the same thing with forms, images, links,
buttons, and everything else. If the component is programmed accessibly, it
is accessible.

So I wouldn't recommend making a general blanket statement that lightboxes
are all inaccessible, and developers should avoid them.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruna Poletto Salton" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
To: "WebAIM Discussion List" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 12:13 PM
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Lightbox accessibility


Thank you all for the discussion on this topic.
In our case, our main concern is whether or not we should recommend that
developers avoid using this element. We are updating the Brazilian Web
Accessibility Guidelines for Governmental Websites. So I believe
this is still something we have to think about.

Regards,
Bruna

On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 11:58 AM, Detlev Fischer <
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> On mobile, support is not so good - both regarding the pick-up of aria
> roles like role=dialog and also regarding focus management when using
> Android/TalkBack or iOS/VoiceOver (I tested a version based on the
> scripts
> in the example by Nicholas C. Zakas with a number of screen readers).
> Not quite sure whether that example is fully relevant to your use case but
> I thought I might throw in the link anyway:
> http://3needs.org/en/testing/code/role-dialog.html
>
> Regards, Detlev
>
>
> --
> Detlev Fischer
> testkreis c/o feld.wald.wiese
> Thedestr. 2, 22767 Hamburg
>
> Mobil +49 (0)1577 170 73 84
> Tel +49 (0)40 439 10 68-3
> Fax +49 (0)40 439 10 68-5
>
> http://www.testkreis.de
> Beratung, Tests und Schulungen für barrierefreie Websites
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Date: 27.02.2013 14:12:50
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Lightbox accessibility
>
>
> > Thank you. It was very helpful indeed.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 11:05 AM, Felix Zapata Berlinches <
> > = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> >
> >> hi all, maybe this link
> >>
> >>
> http://www.nczonline.net/blog/2013/02/12/making-an-accessible-dialog-box/will
> >> be useful for your question...
> >>
> >> bye
> >>
> >> 2013/2/26 Bruna Poletto Salton < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> >>
> >> > Hello everyone,
> >> >
> >> > I was wondering if there is a way to make lightboxes accessible.
> >> > I coordinate a team that evaluates accessibility on Brazilian
> government
> >> > websites and we have encounter lightboxes quite often and they are
> always
> >> > an issue for accessibility.
> >> >
> >> > Thank you,
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > *Bruna Poletto Salton*
> >> > Instituto Federal de Educação, Ciência e Tecnologia do Rio Grande do
> Sul
> >> -
> >> > IFRS
> >> > Pró-Reitoria de Extensão - PROEX
> >> > Projeto de Acessibilidade Virtual
> >> > www.ifrs.edu.br
> >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >
> >> > >> > >> > >>
> > > > > > >
> > > >

From: Detlev Fischer
Date: Fri, Mar 01 2013 2:21AM
Subject: Re: Lightbox accessibility
← Previous message | Next message →

Hi Bryan,

I believe no one here made the statement that lightboxes should be be avoided as a matter of principle. It's just good to be aware of the limits of accessibility support on mobile devices, certainly for some forms of interaction, such as swiping - a common way of 'reading it all' when you don't want to rely on touch exploration. (BTW, the focus management problem on iOS/VoiceOver had nothing to do with the lightbox being displayed outside the display area - I tested on an iPad, and it was well inside).
I think options for offering lightbox info on separate pages for mobile small screen devices might be a good way to mitigate the problem.

Best,

Detlev

From: Bryan Garaventa
Date: Fri, Mar 01 2013 11:09AM
Subject: Re: Lightbox accessibility
← Previous message | No next message

I understand :)

It is tricky at times. I had a similar problem last year regarding
scrollable divs and the inability of Voiceover to reliably scroll the
content within. There was some weird trick for doing this, but I was never
able to get it working. I ended up having to alter the UI for when Voiceover
was running to provide additional controls for this.

So I can certainly empathize.