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From: Jennifer Sutton
Date: Tue, May 14 2013 6:29PM
Subject: Links are not buttons. Neither are DIVs and SPANs | Karl Groves
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Greetings, WebAIM list:

I suspect most on this list know this already; however, I pass it
along in case some of you might find it helpful to circulate among
your colleagues.

Best,
Jennifer

Links are not buttons. Neither are DIVs and SPANs | Karl Groves
<http://www.karlgroves.com/2013/05/14/links-are-not-buttons-neither-are-divs-and-spans/>;http://www.karlgroves.com/2013/05/14/links-are-not-buttons-neither-are-divs-and-spans/

From: Patrick H. Lauke
Date: Tue, May 14 2013 6:44PM
Subject: Re: Links are not buttons. Neither are DIVs and SPANs | Karl Groves
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On 15/05/2013 01:29, Jennifer Sutton wrote:
> Links are not buttons. Neither are DIVs and SPANs | Karl Groves
> <http://www.karlgroves.com/2013/05/14/links-are-not-buttons-neither-are-divs-and-spans/>;http://www.karlgroves.com/2013/05/14/links-are-not-buttons-neither-are-divs-and-spans/

As I can't be bothered to sign up for an account just to reply on Karl's
blog...

"what compelling reason is there to not just use a button?"

Bad/inconsistent support for button styling, in most cases. As with most
form elements (but button does seem to be a special kind of stubborn) it
still is extremely difficult to get it to look just right (whatever
you/your designer thinks is "right").

P
--
Patrick H. Lauke
re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]

www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
http://redux.deviantart.com | http://flickr.com/photos/redux/
twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke

From: Jennifer Sutton
Date: Wed, May 15 2013 9:09AM
Subject: Re: Links are not buttons. Neither are DIVs and SPANs | Karl Groves
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For Patrick and any others who are interested:

Since I don't think it's particularly helpful to
challenge someone's post on a list where they
can't see comments, here's Karl's contact form,
so anyone can contact him directly with their thoughts:

http://www.karlgroves.com/contact-me/


I can understand not wishing to sign up for an
account, but why not contact the site owner directly if you have an issue?

I find it notable that the things I post to this
list sure seem to generate a lot of
Metadiscussion, which isn't my intention or how I
prefer to spend my time contributing to this community.

Good luck to all of you in finding information
that circulates beyond the list. There's a heckuva lot of it.

Jennifer

At 05:44 PM 5/14/2013, you wrote:
>On 15/05/2013 01:29, Jennifer Sutton wrote:
> > Links are not buttons. Neither are DIVs and SPANs | Karl Groves
> >
> <http://www.karlgroves.com/2013/05/14/links-are-not-buttons-neither-are-divs-and-spans/>;http://www.karlgroves.com/2013/05/14/links-are-not-buttons-neither-are-divs-and-spans/
>
>As I can't be bothered to sign up for an account just to reply on Karl's
>blog...
>
>"what compelling reason is there to not just use a button?"
>
>Bad/inconsistent support for button styling, in most cases. As with most
>form elements (but button does seem to be a special kind of stubborn) it
>still is extremely difficult to get it to look just right (whatever
>you/your designer thinks is "right").
>
>P
>--
>Patrick H. Lauke
>>re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
>[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
>
>www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
>http://redux.deviantart.com | http://flickr.com/photos/redux/
>>twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke
>>>>

From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Wed, May 15 2013 9:19AM
Subject: Re: Links are not buttons. Neither are DIVs and SPANs | Karl Groves
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Patrick, this is a good point. I'll ask Karl if I get hold of him (I
am at Access U and actually going to his 3-hour session at 2pm).
As a screen reader user I can perfectly use a pseudo button when it
has the proper focus and keyboard handler attached, so to me, as an
end user, I don't see the big issue really.
If we have things such as ARIA, at least we have ways of making these
pseudo buttons accessible, even if they are not best practice.
So I think both opinions are perfectly valid.
You can also Twitter respond to him for sure.
Discussions are good, points of view are good. I appreciate getting
the typical web developer perspective. They are people with limited
knowledge of accessibility and a thousand demands for styling, time
and delivery of the product. By understanding this as well as the
users we can do what needs to be done to move accessibility forward.
We all need to be able to be open and express our opinions and
problems.
Jennifer, don't be discouraged :), these resources you share on this
list are valuable and relevant.
Cheers
-B

On 5/15/13, Jennifer Sutton < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> For Patrick and any others who are interested:
>
> Since I don't think it's particularly helpful to
> challenge someone's post on a list where they
> can't see comments, here's Karl's contact form,
> so anyone can contact him directly with their thoughts:
>
> http://www.karlgroves.com/contact-me/
>
>
> I can understand not wishing to sign up for an
> account, but why not contact the site owner directly if you have an issue?
>
> I find it notable that the things I post to this
> list sure seem to generate a lot of
> Metadiscussion, which isn't my intention or how I
> prefer to spend my time contributing to this community.
>
> Good luck to all of you in finding information
> that circulates beyond the list. There's a heckuva lot of it.
>
> Jennifer
>
> At 05:44 PM 5/14/2013, you wrote:
>>On 15/05/2013 01:29, Jennifer Sutton wrote:
>> > Links are not buttons. Neither are DIVs and SPANs | Karl Groves
>> >
>> <http://www.karlgroves.com/2013/05/14/links-are-not-buttons-neither-are-divs-and-spans/>;http://www.karlgroves.com/2013/05/14/links-are-not-buttons-neither-are-divs-and-spans/
>>
>>As I can't be bothered to sign up for an account just to reply on Karl's
>>blog...
>>
>>"what compelling reason is there to not just use a button?"
>>
>>Bad/inconsistent support for button styling, in most cases. As with most
>>form elements (but button does seem to be a special kind of stubborn) it
>>still is extremely difficult to get it to look just right (whatever
>>you/your designer thinks is "right").
>>
>>P
>>--
>>Patrick H. Lauke
>>>>re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
>>[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
>>
>>www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
>>http://redux.deviantart.com | http://flickr.com/photos/redux/
>>>>twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke
>>>>>>>>>
> > > >