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From: Jim Homme
Date: Tue, Jun 05 2018 6:32PM
Subject: Screen Reader Table Header Usability Question
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Hi,
I think this is more a usability question than an accessibility one, but please feel free to correct me.

I'm a screen reader user. I feel that I'm OK with the following situation, and wondered what your opinion is, and was hoping for a possible coding answer.

The situation is that there are tables on a site I'm testing. The table header cells allow the user to sort columns in ascending order and descending order if they click links contained in the header cells. Now this is my opinion, which I would like you to comment on. I feel that if possible, it would be OK for usability for the screen reader to skip that the header cells can be sorted as the user navigates among the table data cells, but hear that they can sort the columns when they are reading the header cells. Assuming that you agree with this opinion, is there a solution that allows this to happen? So far I have not thought of one.

Thanks.

Jim



=========Jim Homme
Product Manager
Digital Accessibility
Bender Consulting Services
412-787-8567
https://www.benderconsult.com/our%20services/hightest-accessible-technology-solutions
People with disabilities, access job openings at https://www.benderconsult.com/careers/job-openings

From: Jonathan Cohn
Date: Tue, Jun 05 2018 8:06PM
Subject: Re: Screen Reader Table Header Usability Question
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JIm,

I have seen systems where the sort options are either available or tubbable available as a combo box or possibly a popup menu . One could then remove the heading links to do sorting from the tab order.
Best wishes,

Jonathan Cohn



> On Jun 5, 2018, at 8:32 PM, Jim Homme < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> Hi,
> I think this is more a usability question than an accessibility one, but please feel free to correct me.
>
> I'm a screen reader user. I feel that I'm OK with the following situation, and wondered what your opinion is, and was hoping for a possible coding answer.
>
> The situation is that there are tables on a site I'm testing. The table header cells allow the user to sort columns in ascending order and descending order if they click links contained in the header cells. Now this is my opinion, which I would like you to comment on. I feel that if possible, it would be OK for usability for the screen reader to skip that the header cells can be sorted as the user navigates among the table data cells, but hear that they can sort the columns when they are reading the header cells. Assuming that you agree with this opinion, is there a solution that allows this to happen? So far I have not thought of one.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
> =========> Jim Homme
> Product Manager
> Digital Accessibility
> Bender Consulting Services
> 412-787-8567
> https://www.benderconsult.com/our%20services/hightest-accessible-technology-solutions
> People with disabilities, access job openings at https://www.benderconsult.com/careers/job-openings
>
>
> > > >

From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Fri, Jun 08 2018 5:57PM
Subject: Re: Screen Reader Table Header Usability Question
← Previous message | Next message →

Just code the table headers that can be clicked to sort the column as buttons.
If a user comes across a button, the user knows to click it. No need
to add extra verbiage, just put the column header text in a button
element.
When the table is sorted by that column, add aria-sort attribute
indicating the sort direction to the table cell.
<tr>
<th><button>name</button</th>
<th aria-sort="descending"><button>Date of birth</button></th>
<th>email address</th>
</tr>


On 6/5/18, Jonathan Cohn < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> JIm,
>
> I have seen systems where the sort options are either available or tubbable
> available as a combo box or possibly a popup menu . One could then remove
> the heading links to do sorting from the tab order.
> Best wishes,
>
> Jonathan Cohn
>
>
>
>> On Jun 5, 2018, at 8:32 PM, Jim Homme < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>> I think this is more a usability question than an accessibility one, but
>> please feel free to correct me.
>>
>> I'm a screen reader user. I feel that I'm OK with the following situation,
>> and wondered what your opinion is, and was hoping for a possible coding
>> answer.
>>
>> The situation is that there are tables on a site I'm testing. The table
>> header cells allow the user to sort columns in ascending order and
>> descending order if they click links contained in the header cells. Now
>> this is my opinion, which I would like you to comment on. I feel that if
>> possible, it would be OK for usability for the screen reader to skip that
>> the header cells can be sorted as the user navigates among the table data
>> cells, but hear that they can sort the columns when they are reading the
>> header cells. Assuming that you agree with this opinion, is there a
>> solution that allows this to happen? So far I have not thought of one.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>>
>> =========>> Jim Homme
>> Product Manager
>> Digital Accessibility
>> Bender Consulting Services
>> 412-787-8567
>> https://www.benderconsult.com/our%20services/hightest-accessible-technology-solutions
>> People with disabilities, access job openings at
>> https://www.benderconsult.com/careers/job-openings
>>
>>
>> >> >> >> >
> > > > >


--
Work hard. Have fun. Make history.

From: Wolfgang Berndorfer
Date: Mon, Jun 11 2018 3:30PM
Subject: Re: Screen Reader Table Header Usability Question
← Previous message | No next message

Hi all who care about screen reader UX,
Birkir suggests:
"just put the column header text in a button element".
Agree, but: We frequently find within ONE TH-Element for a column:
a) a date
b) a button like: Sort (up / down)
We all know more verbose button descriptions.
Now about screen reader UX:
When I navigate in the rows bellow with arrow right/left from column to
column, my screen reader will tell me something like this:
"Date Sort Up [Date info of Cell]"
But what from the column heading should be announce when entering the coumn
cell is just ""Date".
Purely a significant usability issue for screen readers. But as I know about
my own frustration about just screen reader usability issues and the
lethargy of most screen reader users to shout for better practise:
My technical idea would be:
1. For b) Button aria-label="" [empty] to overwrite the button text
defaultly at all.
2. Scripts to show the button for a screen reader, when the TH-button gets
focus.
(aria-hidden on the button would not work, as it would never get focus.)
Thanks for improving this technique or better solutions!
Wolfgang
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] Im Auftrag
von Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Gesendet: Samstag, 09. Juni 2018 01:58
An: WebAIM Discussion List
Betreff: Re: [WebAIM] Screen Reader Table Header Usability Question

Just code the table headers that can be clicked to sort the column as
buttons.
If a user comes across a button, the user knows to click it. No need
to add extra verbiage, just put the column header text in a button
element.
When the table is sorted by that column, add aria-sort attribute
indicating the sort direction to the table cell.
<tr>
<th><button>name</button</th>
<th aria-sort="descending"><button>Date of birth</button></th>
<th>email address</th>
</tr>


On 6/5/18, Jonathan Cohn < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> JIm,
>
> I have seen systems where the sort options are either available or
tubbable
> available as a combo box or possibly a popup menu . One could then remove
> the heading links to do sorting from the tab order.
> Best wishes,
>
> Jonathan Cohn
>
>
>
>> On Jun 5, 2018, at 8:32 PM, Jim Homme < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>> I think this is more a usability question than an accessibility one, but
>> please feel free to correct me.
>>
>> I’m a screen reader user. I feel that I’m OK with the following
situation,
>> and wondered what your opinion is, and was hoping for a possible coding
>> answer.
>>
>> The situation is that there are tables on a site I’m testing. The table
>> header cells allow the user to sort columns in ascending order and
>> descending order if they click links contained in the header cells. Now
>> this is my opinion, which I would like you to comment on. I feel that if
>> possible, it would be OK for usability for the screen reader to skip that
>> the header cells can be sorted as the user navigates among the table data
>> cells, but hear that they can sort the columns when they are reading the
>> header cells. Assuming that you agree with this opinion, is there a
>> solution that allows this to happen? So far I have not thought of one.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>>
>> =========>> Jim Homme
>> Product Manager
>> Digital Accessibility
>> Bender Consulting Services
>> 412-787-8567
>>
https://www.benderconsult.com/our%20services/hightest-accessible-technology-
solutions
>> People with disabilities, access job openings at
>> https://www.benderconsult.com/careers/job-openings
>>
>>
>> >> >> >> >
> > > > >


--
Work hard. Have fun. Make history.