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From: Karlen Communications
Date: Fri, Jan 31 2020 6:33AM
Subject: [Athen] POWERPOINT, screen readers and text boxes
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Yes, it is the inaccessibility or inability to port over the text content in Text Boxes in PowerPoint to an alternate format without having to copy and paste all that content into the Word/word processed document. If you think of someone who deletes all the accessible and structural placeholders on slides and replaces then with Text Boxes because that is how they were taught or their first "go to" when creating slides, you can imagine the work (time and money) that it will take to port that content over to Word/word processed document to create the alternate format. Usually, those who like to use Text Boxes on slides will also delete the Slide Title placeholder which provides the underlying structure of the presentation if the presentation is converted to tagged PDF: the title of the presentation on the Title Slide is an H1 as are the "titles" on the Section Break/Section Header slide while the Slide Titles on the other slide layouts will be H2's. This facilitates navigation by Heading (or Bookmark) in the PDF document.



In Word, Text Boxes are still inherently inaccessible although Microsoft has made some progress in moving them toward being more accessible. Since they are not accessed by adaptive technology (unless you know they are there and use a specific keyboard command to find them) someone using a screen reader or Text-to-Speech tool will not have access to that content.



So when doing any training or webinars on accessible document design, I just say NO to Text boxes anywhere so that people aren't confused as to the level of "accessibility" they might have in varying applications.



Most clients don't think of having to produce an alternate format, either large print or Braille of a presentation so when I remediate presentations I provide them with the accessible PowerPoint AND the alternate format version so all they need to do is swap the Style Sets for large print or send the document to the embosser. Since I have to rebuild the slides with the Text Boxes from scratch, I've already got it copied so the amount of time spent creating the alternate format is not cost prohibitive and clients usually like that I've anticipated a need they didn't and wouldn't know how to provide.



The word document/alternate format uses Headings, a TOC, Alt text on images which I can also copy over, Captions for images so that someone receiving Braille knows where there is an image and at the end of each slide title/Heading I put the slide number in parens.



Cheers, Karen



From: athen-list < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Howard Kramer
Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2020 9:05 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Cc: Access Technology Higher Education Network < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [Athen] [WebAIM] Powerpoint, screenreaders and text boxes



Thanks Karen. I think that explains it. So the main issue seems to be when copying or converting the content to a different format, not the reading of the slides in PPT. I just want to make sure I understand all the benefits.



-Howard



On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 5:13 PM Karlen Communications < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > > wrote:

Accessibility comes into play when you need to create a braille or large print copy of the presentation. When you save the presentation as an outline or RTF and add accessible structure to the text, you will have to copy and paste everything that is in a tex box into the RTF/Word doc. Using the default accessible placeholders saves you time and is just good practice.

Yes, I can read content in text boxes in PowerPoint with my screen reader but why delete the accessible placeholders to put text boxes in their place when you can modify the available layouts or create your own and save you time you beef an alternate format.

I can send you a sample of what I mean in the morning and give you a call if you like.

Cheers, Karen

Sent from my iPad

> On Jan 30, 2020, at 6:13 PM, Howard Kramer < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > > wrote:
>
>
> Seems to also work with JAWS.
>
> -Howard
>
>> On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 3:17 PM Howard Kramer < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > > wrote:
>> Thanks Susan! Good to know.
>>
>> -Howard
>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 3:17 PM Susan Kelmer < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > > wrote:
>>> Well, that's interesting! NVDA is always making advancements, unlike Jaws, and they may have solved this puzzle.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> However, if a screenreader user is using Jaws, then there will still be a problem as Jaws won't read (or even see) those text boxes.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Susan Kelmer
>>>
>>> Alternate Format Production Program Manager
>>>
>>> Disability Services
>>>
>>> Division of Student Affairs
>>>
>>> T 303 735 4836
>>>
>>> www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices <http://www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices>;
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> <image001.png>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Due to the nature of electronic communication, the security of this message cannot be guaranteed. If you've received this email in error please notify the sender immediately and delete this message.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: athen-list < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > > On Behalf Of Howard Kramer
>>> Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2020 3:00 PM
>>> To: Access Technology Higher Education Network < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > >
>>> Subject: [Athen] Powerpoint, screenreaders and text boxes
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I've been playing around with PowerPoint (2013 for Windows) and NVDA. It's always been emphasized not to use text boxes and instead to use the slide layouts but I notice that NVDA reads the text boxes without problem although you may need to rearrange the order in the selection pane. I can see that the text boxes are missing from the outline view but I can't see to get NVDA to read that pane in any case.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Does the admonition against text boxes still apply?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Howard
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Howard Kramer
>>>
>>> Conference Coordinator
>>>
>>> Accessing Higher Ground
>>>
>>> 303-492-8672
>>>
>>> cell: 720-351-8668
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Join us for the Accessing Higher Ground Conference in Westminster, Colorado, Nov 16-20, 2020. Request for proposals will be announced late February.
>>>
>>> Complete program information and registration is open for our full line-up of Spring 2020 webinars. Site capacities for all webinar events is limited; please register at your earliest convenience for the largest selection.
>>>
>>> Not yet a member of AHEAD? We welcome you to join AHEAD now.
>>>
>>>
>>> >>> athen-list mailing list
>>> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>>> http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list
>>
>>
>> --
>> Regards,
>> Howard
>>
>> Howard Kramer
>> Conference Coordinator
>> Accessing Higher Ground
>> 303-492-8672
>> cell: 720-351-8668
>>
>> Join us for the Accessing Higher Ground Conference in Westminster, Colorado, Nov 16-20, 2020. Request for proposals will be announced late February.
>>
>> Complete program information and registration is open for our full line-up of Spring 2020 webinars. Site capacities for all webinar events is limited; please register at your earliest convenience for the largest selection.
>>
>> Not yet a member of AHEAD? We welcome you to join AHEAD now.
>>
>
>
> --
> Regards,
> Howard
>
> Howard Kramer
> Conference Coordinator
> Accessing Higher Ground
> 303-492-8672
> cell: 720-351-8668
>
> Join us for the Accessing Higher Ground Conference in Westminster, Colorado, Nov 16-20, 2020. Request for proposals will be announced late February.
>
> Complete program information and registration is open for our full line-up of Spring 2020 webinars. Site capacities for all webinar events is limited; please register at your earliest convenience for the largest selection.
>
> Not yet a member of AHEAD? We welcome you to join AHEAD now.
>
> > athen-list mailing list
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list


--

Regards,

Howard



Howard Kramer

Conference Coordinator

Accessing Higher Ground

303-492-8672

cell: 720-351-8668



Join us for the <http://accessinghigherground.org/>; Accessing Higher Ground Conference in Westminster, Colorado, Nov 16-20, 2020. Request for proposals will be announced late February.



Complete program information and registration is open for our full line-up of Spring 2020 webinars <https://www.ahead.org/events-programming/webinars/2020-spring-webinars> . Site capacities for all webinar events is limited; please register at your earliest convenience for the largest selection.



Not yet a member of AHEAD? <http://ahead.org/join/become-a-member>; We welcome you to join AHEAD now.