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Thread: Why are both validation and accessibility tools showing duplicate id's

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From: Jim Byrne Accessible Web Design
Date: Wed, Nov 30 2022 9:08AM
Subject: Why are both validation and accessibility tools showing duplicate id's
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Hi,

I'm testing a website and both my accessibility tools and page validation are saying the page has duplicate ids. However when I look at the code the all look unique to me. Here are just a few examples from W3 page validation:

' Duplicate ID gform_wrapper_5.
' Duplicate ID gform_5.
' Duplicate ID gform_fields_5.
' Duplicate ID field_5_1.
' Duplicate ID input_5_1.
' Duplicate ID field_5_2.
' Duplicate ID input_5_2.
' Duplicate ID input_5_2_3_container.

They all look unique. No?

Thanks,
Jm

About Jim Byrne
With over two decades of experience Jim Byrne is one of the UK's most experienced practitioners in the area of accessible web design. Jim provided feedback during the development of WCAG 2 as part of the Guild of Accessible Website Designers. He is the author of a number of technical books, training courses and accessibility guides. Jim was a winner of the equal access category of the Global Bangemann Challenge.

Jim Byrne: Specialist in Accessible Website Design.

Web: http://www.jimbyrne.co.uk

Twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jimbyrnewebdev

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thirdsectorwebsitedevelopment

From: Sandy Feldman
Date: Wed, Nov 30 2022 9:32AM
Subject: Re: Why are both validation and accessibility tools showing duplicate id's
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hey Jim,

Can you provide the URL?

Sandy

sandyfeldman.com <https://sandyfeldman.com>
a11yready.com <https://www.a11yready.com/>

On 2022-11-30 11:08 a.m., Jim Byrne Accessible Web Design wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm testing a website and both my accessibility tools and page validation are saying the page has duplicate ids. However when I look at the code the all look unique to me. Here are just a few examples from W3 page validation:
>
> ' Duplicate ID gform_wrapper_5.
> ' Duplicate ID gform_5.
> ' Duplicate ID gform_fields_5.
> ' Duplicate ID field_5_1.
> ' Duplicate ID input_5_1.
> ' Duplicate ID field_5_2.
> ' Duplicate ID input_5_2.
> ' Duplicate ID input_5_2_3_container.
>
> They all look unique. No?
>
> Thanks,
> Jm
>
>
>
>
> About Jim Byrne
> With over two decades of experience Jim Byrne is one of the UK's most experienced practitioners in the area of accessible web design. Jim provided feedback during the development of WCAG 2 as part of the Guild of Accessible Website Designers. He is the author of a number of technical books, training courses and accessibility guides. Jim was a winner of the equal access category of the Global Bangemann Challenge.
>
> Jim Byrne: Specialist in Accessible Website Design.
>
> Web: http://www.jimbyrne.co.uk
>
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jimbyrnewebdev
>
> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thirdsectorwebsitedevelopment
>
>
>
> > > >

From: Patrick H. Lauke
Date: Wed, Nov 30 2022 10:12AM
Subject: Re: Why are both validation and accessibility tools showing duplicate id's
← Previous message | Next message →

On 30/11/2022 16:08, Jim Byrne Accessible Web Design wrote:

> I'm testing a website and both my accessibility tools and page validation are saying the page has duplicate ids. However when I look at the code the all look unique to me. Here are just a few examples from W3 page validation:
>
> ' Duplicate ID gform_wrapper_5.
> ' Duplicate ID gform_5.
> ' Duplicate ID gform_fields_5.
> ' Duplicate ID field_5_1.
> ' Duplicate ID input_5_1.
> ' Duplicate ID field_5_2.
> ' Duplicate ID input_5_2.
> ' Duplicate ID input_5_2_3_container.
>
> They all look unique. No?

That list would generally mean that there's two or more elements that
use each of those IDs. As in yes they're all different from each other
in that list, but each "Duplicate ID" bullet refers to there being two
or more elements in the page that use that particular ID, no?

--
Patrick H. Lauke

https://www.splintered.co.uk/ | https://github.com/patrickhlauke
https://flickr.com/photos/redux/ | https://www.deviantart.com/redux
twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke

From: L Snider
Date: Wed, Nov 30 2022 12:20PM
Subject: Re: Why are both validation and accessibility tools showing duplicate id's
← Previous message | Next message →

I find I have to use a couple of different checkers so I can delve into the
code more, the duplicates exist, I just have to search more sometimes for
them. Also try the NU checker, it can show it easier sometimes.

It is too bad they took out Parsing from WCAG 2.2 (4.1.1).

Cheers

Lisa

On Wed, Nov 30, 2022 at 12:08 PM Jim Byrne Accessible Web Design <
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm testing a website and both my accessibility tools and page validation
> are saying the page has duplicate ids. However when I look at the code the
> all look unique to me. Here are just a few examples from W3 page validation:
>
> ' Duplicate ID gform_wrapper_5.
> ' Duplicate ID gform_5.
> ' Duplicate ID gform_fields_5.
> ' Duplicate ID field_5_1.
> ' Duplicate ID input_5_1.
> ' Duplicate ID field_5_2.
> ' Duplicate ID input_5_2.
> ' Duplicate ID input_5_2_3_container.
>
> They all look unique. No?
>
> Thanks,
> Jm
>
>
>
>
> About Jim Byrne
> With over two decades of experience Jim Byrne is one of the UK's most
> experienced practitioners in the area of accessible web design. Jim
> provided feedback during the development of WCAG 2 as part of the Guild of
> Accessible Website Designers. He is the author of a number of technical
> books, training courses and accessibility guides. Jim was a winner of the
> equal access category of the Global Bangemann Challenge.
>
> Jim Byrne: Specialist in Accessible Website Design.
>
> Web: http://www.jimbyrne.co.uk
>
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jimbyrnewebdev
>
> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thirdsectorwebsitedevelopment
>
>
>
> > > > >

From: Brooks Newton
Date: Wed, Nov 30 2022 1:14PM
Subject: Re: Why are both validation and accessibility tools showing duplicate id's
← Previous message | Next message →

Hey Lisa,

For what it's worth, I voted against removing SC 4.1.1 Parsing from WCAG
2.2 when I was part of the Working Group back in 2019/2020. I left the
group before that removal was finalized as part of WCAG 2.2.

For me, SC 4.1.1 underscored an implicit commitment on the part of content
authors, User Agents and Assistive technology to all handle markup
consistently for the benefit of users with disabilities across time and
across the software stack. Now, that gossamer thread has been severed.

Brooks

On Wed, Nov 30, 2022 at 1:21 PM L Snider < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> I find I have to use a couple of different checkers so I can delve into the
> code more, the duplicates exist, I just have to search more sometimes for
> them. Also try the NU checker, it can show it easier sometimes.
>
> It is too bad they took out Parsing from WCAG 2.2 (4.1.1).
>
> Cheers
>
> Lisa
>
> On Wed, Nov 30, 2022 at 12:08 PM Jim Byrne Accessible Web Design <
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm testing a website and both my accessibility tools and page validation
> > are saying the page has duplicate ids. However when I look at the code
> the
> > all look unique to me. Here are just a few examples from W3 page
> validation:
> >
> > ' Duplicate ID gform_wrapper_5.
> > ' Duplicate ID gform_5.
> > ' Duplicate ID gform_fields_5.
> > ' Duplicate ID field_5_1.
> > ' Duplicate ID input_5_1.
> > ' Duplicate ID field_5_2.
> > ' Duplicate ID input_5_2.
> > ' Duplicate ID input_5_2_3_container.
> >
> > They all look unique. No?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Jm
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > About Jim Byrne
> > With over two decades of experience Jim Byrne is one of the UK's most
> > experienced practitioners in the area of accessible web design. Jim
> > provided feedback during the development of WCAG 2 as part of the Guild
> of
> > Accessible Website Designers. He is the author of a number of technical
> > books, training courses and accessibility guides. Jim was a winner of the
> > equal access category of the Global Bangemann Challenge.
> >
> > Jim Byrne: Specialist in Accessible Website Design.
> >
> > Web: http://www.jimbyrne.co.uk
> >
> > Twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jimbyrnewebdev
> >
> > Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thirdsectorwebsitedevelopment
> >
> >
> >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >

From: L Snider
Date: Wed, Nov 30 2022 2:21PM
Subject: Re: Why are both validation and accessibility tools showing duplicate id's
← Previous message | Next message →

Hi Brooks,

Thanks for sharing that information. I would have voted against as well, I
personally agree with your reasons. Although they could have just used it
for duplicate IDs only, which can be very important not to mess up.
However, that wasn't to be, sadly.

Cheers

Lisa

On Wed, Nov 30, 2022 at 4:14 PM Brooks Newton < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
wrote:

> Hey Lisa,
>
> For what it's worth, I voted against removing SC 4.1.1 Parsing from WCAG
> 2.2 when I was part of the Working Group back in 2019/2020. I left the
> group before that removal was finalized as part of WCAG 2.2.
>
> For me, SC 4.1.1 underscored an implicit commitment on the part of content
> authors, User Agents and Assistive technology to all handle markup
> consistently for the benefit of users with disabilities across time and
> across the software stack. Now, that gossamer thread has been severed.
>
> Brooks
>
> On Wed, Nov 30, 2022 at 1:21 PM L Snider < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> > I find I have to use a couple of different checkers so I can delve into
> the
> > code more, the duplicates exist, I just have to search more sometimes for
> > them. Also try the NU checker, it can show it easier sometimes.
> >
> > It is too bad they took out Parsing from WCAG 2.2 (4.1.1).
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Lisa
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 30, 2022 at 12:08 PM Jim Byrne Accessible Web Design <
> > = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I'm testing a website and both my accessibility tools and page
> validation
> > > are saying the page has duplicate ids. However when I look at the code
> > the
> > > all look unique to me. Here are just a few examples from W3 page
> > validation:
> > >
> > > ' Duplicate ID gform_wrapper_5.
> > > ' Duplicate ID gform_5.
> > > ' Duplicate ID gform_fields_5.
> > > ' Duplicate ID field_5_1.
> > > ' Duplicate ID input_5_1.
> > > ' Duplicate ID field_5_2.
> > > ' Duplicate ID input_5_2.
> > > ' Duplicate ID input_5_2_3_container.
> > >
> > > They all look unique. No?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Jm
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > About Jim Byrne
> > > With over two decades of experience Jim Byrne is one of the UK's most
> > > experienced practitioners in the area of accessible web design. Jim
> > > provided feedback during the development of WCAG 2 as part of the Guild
> > of
> > > Accessible Website Designers. He is the author of a number of technical
> > > books, training courses and accessibility guides. Jim was a winner of
> the
> > > equal access category of the Global Bangemann Challenge.
> > >
> > > Jim Byrne: Specialist in Accessible Website Design.
> > >
> > > Web: http://www.jimbyrne.co.uk
> > >
> > > Twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jimbyrnewebdev
> > >
> > > Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thirdsectorwebsitedevelopment
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >

From: Sandy Feldman
Date: Thu, Dec 01 2022 9:09AM
Subject: Re: Why are both validation and accessibility tools showing duplicate id's
← Previous message | Next message →

View source and search for the code that is coming up as as having a
duplicate id. See if you find more than one.

good luck!

Sandy

sandyfeldman.com <https://sandyfeldman.com>
a11yready.com <https://www.a11yready.com/>

On 2022-11-30 2:20 p.m., L Snider wrote:
> I find I have to use a couple of different checkers so I can delve into the
> code more, the duplicates exist, I just have to search more sometimes for
> them. Also try the NU checker, it can show it easier sometimes.
>
> It is too bad they took out Parsing from WCAG 2.2 (4.1.1).
>
> Cheers
>
> Lisa
>
> On Wed, Nov 30, 2022 at 12:08 PM Jim Byrne Accessible Web Design <
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm testing a website and both my accessibility tools and page validation
>> are saying the page has duplicate ids. However when I look at the code the
>> all look unique to me. Here are just a few examples from W3 page validation:
>>
>> ' Duplicate ID gform_wrapper_5.
>> ' Duplicate ID gform_5.
>> ' Duplicate ID gform_fields_5.
>> ' Duplicate ID field_5_1.
>> ' Duplicate ID input_5_1.
>> ' Duplicate ID field_5_2.
>> ' Duplicate ID input_5_2.
>> ' Duplicate ID input_5_2_3_container.
>>
>> They all look unique. No?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Jm
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> About Jim Byrne
>> With over two decades of experience Jim Byrne is one of the UK's most
>> experienced practitioners in the area of accessible web design. Jim
>> provided feedback during the development of WCAG 2 as part of the Guild of
>> Accessible Website Designers. He is the author of a number of technical
>> books, training courses and accessibility guides. Jim was a winner of the
>> equal access category of the Global Bangemann Challenge.
>>
>> Jim Byrne: Specialist in Accessible Website Design.
>>
>> Web: http://www.jimbyrne.co.uk
>>
>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jimbyrnewebdev
>>
>> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thirdsectorwebsitedevelopment
>>
>>
>>
>> >> >> >> >>
> > > >

From: Patrick H. Lauke
Date: Thu, Dec 01 2022 10:14AM
Subject: Re: Why are both validation and accessibility tools showing duplicate id's
← Previous message | Next message →

On 01/12/2022 16:09, Sandy Feldman wrote:
> View source and search for the code that is coming up as as having a
> duplicate id. See if you find more than one.

View source these days isn't much help, since things more often than not
get generated/injected via JS.

Open Developer Tools, DOM view, then search for the ID

P
--
Patrick H. Lauke

https://www.splintered.co.uk/ | https://github.com/patrickhlauke
https://flickr.com/photos/redux/ | https://www.deviantart.com/redux
twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke

From: Sandy Feldman
Date: Thu, Dec 01 2022 10:21AM
Subject: Re: Why are both validation and accessibility tools showing duplicate id's
← Previous message | Next message →

good point!

Sandy

sandyfeldman.com <https://sandyfeldman.com>
a11yready.com <https://www.a11yready.com/>

On 2022-12-01 12:14 p.m., Patrick H. Lauke wrote:
> On 01/12/2022 16:09, Sandy Feldman wrote:
>> View source and search for the code that is coming up as as having a
>> duplicate id. See if you find more than one.
>
> View source these days isn't much help, since things more often than
> not get generated/injected via JS.
>
> Open Developer Tools, DOM view, then search for the ID
>
> P

From: Steve Green
Date: Thu, Dec 01 2022 10:44AM
Subject: Re: Why are both validation and accessibility tools showing duplicate id's
← Previous message | No next message

I think that "things more often than not get generated/injected via JS" is stretching the point a bit far, although I have seen a number of websites where the entire contents of the body were generated by scripts. Almost nothing on our website is generated by scripts other than a few attributes that we can't add in the CMS.

And if the JavaScript is targeting elements by their "id" attribute, duplicates in the original source could certainly cause problems. That's why we validate both the initial source and the DOM.

Steve Green
Managing Director
Test Partners Ltd