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Thread: Does every field need a label in this instance?
Number of posts in this thread: 13 (In chronological order)
From: Bettina Szekany
Date: Sat, Feb 04 2023 5:14AM
Subject: Does every field need a label in this instance?
No previous message | Next message →
Hello everyone,
I'd like to get some input please.
I'm designing a form that by default has
- a descriptive heading
- 3 input fields with hint text. Purpose of these input fields is the same.
Number of fields can go up to 100
- aria labeling for fields
Every single input field would have the same label, thus labels were
ommitted to avoid visual clutter.
I have came across these suggestion on a website and I find them
conflicting. (
https://www.digitala11y.com/understanding-sc-3-3-2-labels-or-instructions/?unapproved698&moderation-hash70a52e52fd5aae9e43c4b6205b0b82#comment-90698
)
⢠"content authors must ensure that information is not overwhelming and
thus do not clutter the page or even the memory of the users"
⢠"Always provide visible labels to every form fields and controls"
I'd like to know in the instance described above do we need to add the same
label for every single input field?
Thanks very much in advance!
From: Dean.Vasile
Date: Sat, Feb 04 2023 6:32AM
Subject: Re: Does every field need a label in this instance?
← Previous message | Next message →
In my opinion, I would guess that would depend on exactly what the field is.
Each field should have a unique name.
However, if for some reason they have to be identical, it would probably behoove you to indicate at the beginning of the page that each form field is identical because it has a blind screen reader user when I tap into each field. If it doesn't indicate what that field is, I will find it very confusing.
Dino
617-799-1162
Dino's Canteen 1618
11 Eglin St,
Hanscom AFB
Bedford, MA
> On Feb 4, 2023, at 7:14 AM, Bettina Szekany < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> I'd like to get some input please.
>
> I'm designing a form that by default has
> - a descriptive heading
> - 3 input fields with hint text. Purpose of these input fields is the same.
> Number of fields can go up to 100
> - aria labeling for fields
>
> Every single input field would have the same label, thus labels were
> ommitted to avoid visual clutter.
>
> I have came across these suggestion on a website and I find them
> conflicting. (
> https://www.digitala11y.com/understanding-sc-3-3-2-labels-or-instructions/?unapproved698&moderation-hash70a52e52fd5aae9e43c4b6205b0b82#comment-90698
> )
>
> ⢠"content authors must ensure that information is not overwhelming and
> thus do not clutter the page or even the memory of the users"
> ⢠"Always provide visible labels to every form fields and controls"
>
> I'd like to know in the instance described above do we need to add the same
> label for every single input field?
>
> Thanks very much in advance!
> > > >
From: Bettina Szekany
Date: Sat, Feb 04 2023 7:14AM
Subject: Re: Does every field need a label in this instance?
← Previous message | Next message →
Hi Dino,
Thanks for the feedback!
It is a webapp that you can build a matrix type questionnaire with.
The input fields are for labeling the rows and columns. The rows and the
columns are organised into two separated sections with respective heading
titles.
Every single input field in one section would either have the visible label
"row label" or "column label".
This would have a big impact on usability and scanability when we
considering the amount of fields (100+).
Based on my research I was thinking to add a short description under the
heading titles stating that the field inputs are for labeling the
rows/columns.
Kindly,
Bettina
On Sat, Feb 4, 2023, 14:32 = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
wrote:
> In my opinion, I would guess that would depend on exactly what the field
> is.
> Each field should have a unique name.
> However, if for some reason they have to be identical, it would probably
> behoove you to indicate at the beginning of the page that each form field
> is identical because it has a blind screen reader user when I tap into each
> field. If it doesn't indicate what that field is, I will find it very
> confusing.
>
> Dino
>
> 617-799-1162
>
> Dino's Canteen 1618
> 11 Eglin St,
> Hanscom AFB
> Bedford, MA
>
> > On Feb 4, 2023, at 7:14 AM, Bettina Szekany < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> wrote:
> >
> > Hello everyone,
> >
> > I'd like to get some input please.
> >
> > I'm designing a form that by default has
> > - a descriptive heading
> > - 3 input fields with hint text. Purpose of these input fields is the
> same.
> > Number of fields can go up to 100
> > - aria labeling for fields
> >
> > Every single input field would have the same label, thus labels were
> > ommitted to avoid visual clutter.
> >
> > I have came across these suggestion on a website and I find them
> > conflicting. (
> >
> https://www.digitala11y.com/understanding-sc-3-3-2-labels-or-instructions/?unapproved698&moderation-hash70a52e52fd5aae9e43c4b6205b0b82#comment-90698
> > )
> >
> > ⢠"content authors must ensure that information is not overwhelming and
> > thus do not clutter the page or even the memory of the users"
> > ⢠"Always provide visible labels to every form fields and controls"
> >
> > I'd like to know in the instance described above do we need to add the
> same
> > label for every single input field?
> >
> > Thanks very much in advance!
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
From: Dean.Vasile
Date: Sat, Feb 04 2023 7:45AM
Subject: Re: Does every field need a label in this instance?
← Previous message | Next message →
Bettina
That sounds to me like it could work.
Have you tested it with a screen reader to see if you would be able to identify each of the fields to know what information you needed to enter there if you were not familiar with the page?
Dino
617-799-1162
Dino's Canteen 1618
11 Eglin St,
Hanscom AFB
Bedford, MA
On Feb 4, 2023, at 9:14 AM, Bettina Szekany < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
Hi Dino,
Thanks for the feedback!
It is a webapp that you can build a matrix type questionnaire with.
The input fields are for labeling the rows and columns. The rows and the
columns are organised into two separated sections with respective heading
titles.
Every single input field in one section would either have the visible label
"row label" or "column label".
This would have a big impact on usability and scanability when we
considering the amount of fields (100+).
Based on my research I was thinking to add a short description under the
heading titles stating that the field inputs are for labeling the
rows/columns.
Kindly,
Bettina
On Sat, Feb 4, 2023, 14:32 = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
wrote:
In my opinion, I would guess that would depend on exactly what the field
is.
Each field should have a unique name.
However, if for some reason they have to be identical, it would probably
behoove you to indicate at the beginning of the page that each form field
is identical because it has a blind screen reader user when I tap into each
field. If it doesn't indicate what that field is, I will find it very
confusing.
Dino
617-799-1162
Dino's Canteen 1618
11 Eglin St,
Hanscom AFB
Bedford, MA
On Feb 4, 2023, at 7:14 AM, Bettina Szekany < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
wrote:
Hello everyone,
I'd like to get some input please.
I'm designing a form that by default has
- a descriptive heading
- 3 input fields with hint text. Purpose of these input fields is the
same.
Number of fields can go up to 100
- aria labeling for fields
Every single input field would have the same label, thus labels were
ommitted to avoid visual clutter.
I have came across these suggestion on a website and I find them
conflicting. (
https://www.digitala11y.com/understanding-sc-3-3-2-labels-or-instructions/?unapproved698&moderation-hash70a52e52fd5aae9e43c4b6205b0b82#comment-90698
)
⢠"content authors must ensure that information is not overwhelming and
thus do not clutter the page or even the memory of the users"
⢠"Always provide visible labels to every form fields and controls"
I'd like to know in the instance described above do we need to add the
same
label for every single input field?
Thanks very much in advance!
From: Bettina Szekany
Date: Sat, Feb 04 2023 8:18AM
Subject: Re: Does every field need a label in this instance?
← Previous message | Next message →
Cool ð
We're using ARIA labeling to identify the separate form fields as well as
each and every field has an ARIA labeling to provide information for screen
readers.
Are these measurements sufficient?
Kindly,
Bettina
On Sat, Feb 4, 2023, 15:46 = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
wrote:
> Bettina
> That sounds to me like it could work.
> Have you tested it with a screen reader to see if you would be able to
> identify each of the fields to know what information you needed to enter
> there if you were not familiar with the page?
> Dino
>
> 617-799-1162
>
> Dino's Canteen 1618
> 11 Eglin St,
> Hanscom AFB
> Bedford, MA
>
> On Feb 4, 2023, at 9:14 AM, Bettina Szekany < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> wrote:
>
> Hi Dino,
>
> Thanks for the feedback!
>
> It is a webapp that you can build a matrix type questionnaire with.
> The input fields are for labeling the rows and columns. The rows and the
> columns are organised into two separated sections with respective heading
> titles.
> Every single input field in one section would either have the visible label
> "row label" or "column label".
> This would have a big impact on usability and scanability when we
> considering the amount of fields (100+).
> Based on my research I was thinking to add a short description under the
> heading titles stating that the field inputs are for labeling the
> rows/columns.
>
> Kindly,
> Bettina
>
> On Sat, Feb 4, 2023, 14:32 = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> wrote:
>
> In my opinion, I would guess that would depend on exactly what the field
> is.
> Each field should have a unique name.
> However, if for some reason they have to be identical, it would probably
> behoove you to indicate at the beginning of the page that each form field
> is identical because it has a blind screen reader user when I tap into each
> field. If it doesn't indicate what that field is, I will find it very
> confusing.
>
> Dino
>
> 617-799-1162
>
> Dino's Canteen 1618
> 11 Eglin St,
> Hanscom AFB
> Bedford, MA
>
> On Feb 4, 2023, at 7:14 AM, Bettina Szekany < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> wrote:
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> I'd like to get some input please.
>
> I'm designing a form that by default has
> - a descriptive heading
> - 3 input fields with hint text. Purpose of these input fields is the
> same.
> Number of fields can go up to 100
> - aria labeling for fields
>
> Every single input field would have the same label, thus labels were
> ommitted to avoid visual clutter.
>
> I have came across these suggestion on a website and I find them
> conflicting. (
>
>
> https://www.digitala11y.com/understanding-sc-3-3-2-labels-or-instructions/?unapproved698&moderation-hash70a52e52fd5aae9e43c4b6205b0b82#comment-90698
> )
>
> ⢠"content authors must ensure that information is not overwhelming and
> thus do not clutter the page or even the memory of the users"
> ⢠"Always provide visible labels to every form fields and controls"
>
> I'd like to know in the instance described above do we need to add the
> same
> label for every single input field?
>
> Thanks very much in advance!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
From: glen walker
Date: Sat, Feb 04 2023 10:04AM
Subject: Re: Does every field need a label in this instance?
← Previous message | Next message →
Do you have a mockup as an example we can look at?
Reading various articles about the guidelines can be helpful but it's
always best to start at the source, WCAG itself.
1.3.1 Info and Relationships might come into play if there's a
"relationship" between fields and their labels that a sighted user can
discern but does not have the appropriate HTML to establish that
relationship.
2.4.6 Headings and Labels does not require headings or labels but says if
you have them, they should be descriptive.
3.3.2 Labels or Instructions is your main guidance here. It says "Labels
or instructions are provided when content requires user input." Notice the
second tiny word, "or". You are required to have labels OR instructions
for your input fields. You can certainly have both, and that's usually
helpful, but the requirement is to have one or the other. If your
instructions are clear what the input fields are for, then you don't
necessarily have to have visible labels for all the fields. It's rare that
you wouldn't want visible labels, but there are occasions where it's
appropriate.
Now we all know that WCAG is a baseline minimum and that even satisfying
all of WCAG, while making the app accessible, might not make it usable. It
sounds like that's where you are. You might be technically satisfying WCAG
but want to make sure the experience is better than the minimum requirement.
It sounds like you are describing a table or grid of input fields and that
the table can grow. WebAIM has an article about labeling tables of input
fields:
https://webaim.org/techniques/forms/advanced#multiple
From: Alan Zaitchik
Date: Sat, Feb 04 2023 5:40PM
Subject: Re: Does every field need a label in this instance?
← Previous message | Next message →
Speech recognition technology users (e.g,, Dragon) may have a hard time identifying an input control that has no uniquely identifying, visible label. Aria labels won't help such users.
A
> On Feb 4, 2023, at 10:18, Bettina Szekany < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> Cool ð
> We're using ARIA labeling to identify the separate form fields as well as
> each and every field has an ARIA labeling to provide information for screen
> readers.
> Are these measurements sufficient?
>
> Kindly,
> Bettina
>
>> On Sat, Feb 4, 2023, 15:46 = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>> wrote:
>>
>> Bettina
>> That sounds to me like it could work.
>> Have you tested it with a screen reader to see if you would be able to
>> identify each of the fields to know what information you needed to enter
>> there if you were not familiar with the page?
>> Dino
>>
>> 617-799-1162
>>
>> Dino's Canteen 1618
>> 11 Eglin St,
>> Hanscom AFB
>> Bedford, MA
>>
>> On Feb 4, 2023, at 9:14 AM, Bettina Szekany < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Dino,
>>
>> Thanks for the feedback!
>>
>> It is a webapp that you can build a matrix type questionnaire with.
>> The input fields are for labeling the rows and columns. The rows and the
>> columns are organised into two separated sections with respective heading
>> titles.
>> Every single input field in one section would either have the visible label
>> "row label" or "column label".
>> This would have a big impact on usability and scanability when we
>> considering the amount of fields (100+).
>> Based on my research I was thinking to add a short description under the
>> heading titles stating that the field inputs are for labeling the
>> rows/columns.
>>
>> Kindly,
>> Bettina
>>
>> On Sat, Feb 4, 2023, 14:32 = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <
>> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>> wrote:
>>
>> In my opinion, I would guess that would depend on exactly what the field
>> is.
>> Each field should have a unique name.
>> However, if for some reason they have to be identical, it would probably
>> behoove you to indicate at the beginning of the page that each form field
>> is identical because it has a blind screen reader user when I tap into each
>> field. If it doesn't indicate what that field is, I will find it very
>> confusing.
>>
>> Dino
>>
>> 617-799-1162
>>
>> Dino's Canteen 1618
>> 11 Eglin St,
>> Hanscom AFB
>> Bedford, MA
>>
>> On Feb 4, 2023, at 7:14 AM, Bettina Szekany < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> I'd like to get some input please.
>>
>> I'm designing a form that by default has
>> - a descriptive heading
>> - 3 input fields with hint text. Purpose of these input fields is the
>> same.
>> Number of fields can go up to 100
>> - aria labeling for fields
>>
>> Every single input field would have the same label, thus labels were
>> ommitted to avoid visual clutter.
>>
>> I have came across these suggestion on a website and I find them
>> conflicting. (
>>
>>
>> https://www.digitala11y.com/understanding-sc-3-3-2-labels-or-instructions/?unapproved698&moderation-hash70a52e52fd5aae9e43c4b6205b0b82#comment-90698
>> )
>>
>> ⢠"content authors must ensure that information is not overwhelming and
>> thus do not clutter the page or even the memory of the users"
>> ⢠"Always provide visible labels to every form fields and controls"
>>
>> I'd like to know in the instance described above do we need to add the
>> same
>> label for every single input field?
>>
>> Thanks very much in advance!
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>
>
From: glen walker
Date: Sat, Feb 04 2023 6:27PM
Subject: Re: Does every field need a label in this instance?
← Previous message | Next message →
That's certainly worth considering but Dragon (and perhaps other speech
dictation software) lets you select all the input fields and then you can
choose which input out of the set you want to interact with.
On Sat, Feb 4, 2023 at 5:41 PM Alan Zaitchik < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Speech recognition technology users (e.g,, Dragon) may have a hard time
> identifying an input control that has no uniquely identifying, visible
> label. Aria labels won't help such users.
>
From: Bettina Szekany
Date: Sat, Feb 04 2023 8:43PM
Subject: Re: Does every field need a label in this instance?
← Previous message | Next message →
I'd also like to get a clarification about this advice please.
WCAG 2 checklist says:
2.4.6 Headings and Labels
"Page headings and labels for form and interactive controls are
informative. Avoid duplicating heading (e.g., "More Details") or label text
(e.g., "First Name") unless the structure provides adequate differentiation
between them."
For me this says that every field should have its own unique label. But I
might misinterpret it.
What do you think?
Kindly,
Bettina
On Sun, Feb 5, 2023, 03:02 Bettina Szekany < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Hello guys,
>
> Please see the attachment for the mockup.
>
> Kindly,
> Bettina
>
> On Sat, Feb 4, 2023, 13:14 Bettina Szekany < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> I'd like to get some input please.
>>
>> I'm designing a form that by default has
>> - a descriptive heading
>> - 3 input fields with hint text. Purpose of these input fields is the
>> same. Number of fields can go up to 100
>> - aria labeling for fields
>>
>> Every single input field would have the same label, thus labels were
>> ommitted to avoid visual clutter.
>>
>> I have came across these suggestion on a website and I find them
>> conflicting. (
>> https://www.digitala11y.com/understanding-sc-3-3-2-labels-or-instructions/?unapproved698&moderation-hash70a52e52fd5aae9e43c4b6205b0b82#comment-90698
>> )
>>
>> ⢠"content authors must ensure that information is not overwhelming and
>> thus do not clutter the page or even the memory of the users"
>> ⢠"Always provide visible labels to every form fields and controls"
>>
>> I'd like to know in the instance described above do we need to add the
>> same label for every single input field?
>>
>> Thanks very much in advance!
>>
>
From: David Engebretson Jr.
Date: Sat, Feb 04 2023 10:58PM
Subject: Re: Does every field need a label in this instance?
← Previous message | Next message →
Yah, to me, as a screen reader user I require unique and concise labels on each element to access a form with equality to my sighted peers. Plus, it's just good practice to have unique id's on each element so that you can bring a user back to a field that might have an error on it when they submit invalid data.
To me, as an accessibility professional, I would fail a form if there weren't unique id's on each element in the form. Even a unique identifier such as "Name001" or "Name100" would be better than naming them all the same, in my humble opinion.
Plus, I've learned to not always trust information from blogs. Dig into the WAI (Web Accessibility Initiative) and the WCAG (Web Content Accessibility Guidelines) from w3.org for the objective truth regarding questions and compliance concerns you might have about digital accessibility techniques in design and remediation is going to lead you towards honest and well thought out solutions. The w3 is probably a better source than what you might find in a google search that guides you to vendors looking for your business and/or blogs that might inadvertently post recommendations that aren't always well thought through or written. The WAI and WCAG documentation might not always be correct because we all make mistakes, but those folks are the closest to the objective truth you will find. If you analyze a problem in the documentation and guidance of any w3.org sponsored page then I'm certain they would be very appreciative of your feedback so the documentation isn't confusing to other folks who are most certainly experiencing similar issues to yours.
One other thing to keep in mind is that assistive technologies, browsers, and operating systems are always changing. In my opinion there is almost no way to ensure all people will have equitable access to all digital technologies with the ever growing pace of change in the digital technologies field and the ever growing population of humans with unique needs like I have as someone who relies on assistive technology for equitable access. The ever growing population and ever changing technologies are great for us as digital technologies accessibility professionals for longevity in our chosen career, but the less technically oriented human might wonder why there isn't a simple solution to user experiences that are less than accessible.
Simple, universally usable, WCAG compliant, and consistent design of digital technologies is the best place to start in my opinion.
Keep following the WCAG guidelines and maybe, someday, we'll get closer to a solution. I sure hope so! That's what I'm aiming for.
Cheers,
David
From: Bettina Szekany
Date: Sat, Feb 04 2023 11:18PM
Subject: Re: Does every field need a label in this instance?
← Previous message | Next message →
Dear David,
Thank you so much for your elaborate reply.
The quote I've asked clarification for comes from the webaim WCAG 2
checklist.
https://webaim.org/standards/wcag/checklist
There's no argument about that at the backend every single fiels should be
labeleb for screen readers - now I also understand that fields need unique
labeling. I'm really thankful for your explaination!
The concer is rather the visual clutter that visible labels will bring upon
and how does it influence the overall usability and experience.
Kindly,
Bettina
On Sun, Feb 5, 2023, 06:58 David Engebretson Jr. <
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Yah, to me, as a screen reader user I require unique and concise labels on
> each element to access a form with equality to my sighted peers. Plus, it's
> just good practice to have unique id's on each element so that you can
> bring a user back to a field that might have an error on it when they
> submit invalid data.
>
> To me, as an accessibility professional, I would fail a form if there
> weren't unique id's on each element in the form. Even a unique identifier
> such as "Name001" or "Name100" would be better than naming them all the
> same, in my humble opinion.
>
> Plus, I've learned to not always trust information from blogs. Dig into
> the WAI (Web Accessibility Initiative) and the WCAG (Web Content
> Accessibility Guidelines) from w3.org for the objective truth regarding
> questions and compliance concerns you might have about digital
> accessibility techniques in design and remediation is going to lead you
> towards honest and well thought out solutions. The w3 is probably a better
> source than what you might find in a google search that guides you to
> vendors looking for your business and/or blogs that might inadvertently
> post recommendations that aren't always well thought through or written.
> The WAI and WCAG documentation might not always be correct because we all
> make mistakes, but those folks are the closest to the objective truth you
> will find. If you analyze a problem in the documentation and guidance of
> any w3.org sponsored page then I'm certain they would be very
> appreciative of your feedback so the documentation isn't confusing to other
> folks who are most certainly experiencing similar issues to yours.
>
> One other thing to keep in mind is that assistive technologies, browsers,
> and operating systems are always changing. In my opinion there is almost no
> way to ensure all people will have equitable access to all digital
> technologies with the ever growing pace of change in the digital
> technologies field and the ever growing population of humans with unique
> needs like I have as someone who relies on assistive technology for
> equitable access. The ever growing population and ever changing
> technologies are great for us as digital technologies accessibility
> professionals for longevity in our chosen career, but the less technically
> oriented human might wonder why there isn't a simple solution to user
> experiences that are less than accessible.
>
> Simple, universally usable, WCAG compliant, and consistent design of
> digital technologies is the best place to start in my opinion.
>
> Keep following the WCAG guidelines and maybe, someday, we'll get closer to
> a solution. I sure hope so! That's what I'm aiming for.
>
> Cheers,
> David
>
> > > > >
From: Jonathan Whiting
Date: Tue, Feb 07 2023 10:17AM
Subject: Re: Does every field need a label in this instance?
← Previous message | Next message →
WCAG 2 checklist says: 2.4.6 Headings and Labels - "Page headings and labels for form and interactive controls are informative. Avoid duplicating heading (e.g., "More Details") or label text (e.g., "First Name") unless the structure provides adequate differentiation between them."
For me this says that every field should have its own unique label. But I might misinterpret it. What do you think?
In this case, I think the last part of what it says in the checklist is important: "unless the structure provides adequate differentiation between them."
A table is a great example of an element that can provide this structure. The single label serves as a visible label for multiple fields and the structure of the table makes it clear that fields are repeated in multiple columns or rows. Screen reader users will also get this information if the table is structured correctly. Glen shared a WebAIM article with an example of this: https://webaim.org/techniques/forms/advanced#multiple. (It also outlines how aria-labelledby can be used to present this information to screen reader users.)
This structure does not fail WCAG SC 2.4.6 because SC 2.4.6 doesn't require that every form control have a unique label. It doesn't even require a label (SC 3.3.2 does). It requires that "labels [if present] describe topic or purpose." A single label can describe the topic or purpose of multiple fields.
David said:
Yah, to me, as a screen reader user I require unique and concise labels on each element to access a form with equality to my sighted peers.
I think it's good to distinguish personal preference from WCAG requirements. WCAG requires descriptive labels, but it does not require that every label be unique.
I think there would be times when "equality with [your] sighted peers" would mean that the label is not unique. In the table example described above, the experience for a signed user is a repeated label, plus a table. I think this is what you would want to convey to screen reader users.
Best,
Jon
Jonathan Whiting
Director of Training, WebAIM
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > on behalf of Bettina Szekany < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2023 11:18 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Does every field need a label in this instance?
Dear David,
Thank you so much for your elaborate reply.
The quote I've asked clarification for comes from the webaim WCAG 2
checklist.
https://webaim.org/standards/wcag/checklist
There's no argument about that at the backend every single fiels should be
labeleb for screen readers - now I also understand that fields need unique
labeling. I'm really thankful for your explaination!
The concer is rather the visual clutter that visible labels will bring upon
and how does it influence the overall usability and experience.
Kindly,
Bettina
On Sun, Feb 5, 2023, 06:58 David Engebretson Jr. <
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Yah, to me, as a screen reader user I require unique and concise labels on
> each element to access a form with equality to my sighted peers. Plus, it's
> just good practice to have unique id's on each element so that you can
> bring a user back to a field that might have an error on it when they
> submit invalid data.
>
> To me, as an accessibility professional, I would fail a form if there
> weren't unique id's on each element in the form. Even a unique identifier
> such as "Name001" or "Name100" would be better than naming them all the
> same, in my humble opinion.
>
> Plus, I've learned to not always trust information from blogs. Dig into
> the WAI (Web Accessibility Initiative) and the WCAG (Web Content
> Accessibility Guidelines) from w3.org for the objective truth regarding
> questions and compliance concerns you might have about digital
> accessibility techniques in design and remediation is going to lead you
> towards honest and well thought out solutions. The w3 is probably a better
> source than what you might find in a google search that guides you to
> vendors looking for your business and/or blogs that might inadvertently
> post recommendations that aren't always well thought through or written.
> The WAI and WCAG documentation might not always be correct because we all
> make mistakes, but those folks are the closest to the objective truth you
> will find. If you analyze a problem in the documentation and guidance of
> any w3.org sponsored page then I'm certain they would be very
> appreciative of your feedback so the documentation isn't confusing to other
> folks who are most certainly experiencing similar issues to yours.
>
> One other thing to keep in mind is that assistive technologies, browsers,
> and operating systems are always changing. In my opinion there is almost no
> way to ensure all people will have equitable access to all digital
> technologies with the ever growing pace of change in the digital
> technologies field and the ever growing population of humans with unique
> needs like I have as someone who relies on assistive technology for
> equitable access. The ever growing population and ever changing
> technologies are great for us as digital technologies accessibility
> professionals for longevity in our chosen career, but the less technically
> oriented human might wonder why there isn't a simple solution to user
> experiences that are less than accessible.
>
> Simple, universally usable, WCAG compliant, and consistent design of
> digital technologies is the best place to start in my opinion.
>
> Keep following the WCAG guidelines and maybe, someday, we'll get closer to
> a solution. I sure hope so! That's what I'm aiming for.
>
> Cheers,
> David
>
> > > > >
From: Bettina Szekany
Date: Wed, Feb 08 2023 5:50AM
Subject: Re: Does every field need a label in this instance?
← Previous message | No next message
Jonathan, I want to thank you here as well for sharing your opinion. Thank
so much!ð¤
I'm a bit overwhelmed but very grateful at the same time. I didn't really
think or I'd say I didn't really hope I'll get so much valuable advice.
Thank you so much to all of you who took the time and shared your
experience and expertise with me.
You helped a lot in building a great product that everyone can enjoy.
Kind regards,
Bettina Székány
On Tue, Feb 7, 2023 at 6:17 PM Jonathan Whiting < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> WCAG 2 checklist says: 2.4.6 Headings and Labels - "Page headings and
> labels for form and interactive controls are informative. Avoid duplicating
> heading (e.g., "More Details") or label text (e.g., "First Name") unless
> the structure provides adequate differentiation between them."
>
> For me this says that every field should have its own unique label. But I
> might misinterpret it. What do you think?
> In this case, I think the last part of what it says in the checklist is
> important: "unless the structure provides adequate differentiation between
> them."
>
> A table is a great example of an element that can provide this structure.
> The single label serves as a visible label for multiple fields and the
> structure of the table makes it clear that fields are repeated in multiple
> columns or rows. Screen reader users will also get this information if the
> table is structured correctly. Glen shared a WebAIM article with an example
> of this: https://webaim.org/techniques/forms/advanced#multiple. (It also
> outlines how aria-labelledby can be used to present this information to
> screen reader users.)
>
> This structure does not fail WCAG SC 2.4.6 because SC 2.4.6 doesn't
> require that every form control have a unique label. It doesn't even
> require a label (SC 3.3.2 does). It requires that "labels [if present]
> describe topic or purpose." A single label can describe the topic or
> purpose of multiple fields.
>
> David said:
> Yah, to me, as a screen reader user I require unique and concise labels on
> each element to access a form with equality to my sighted peers.
> I think it's good to distinguish personal preference from WCAG
> requirements. WCAG requires descriptive labels, but it does not require
> that every label be unique.
>
> I think there would be times when "equality with [your] sighted peers"
> would mean that the label is not unique. In the table example described
> above, the experience for a signed user is a repeated label, plus a table.
> I think this is what you would want to convey to screen reader users.
>
> Best,
> Jon
>
> Jonathan Whiting
> Director of Training, WebAIM
>
>
> > From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > on behalf of
> Bettina Szekany < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2023 11:18 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Does every field need a label in this instance?
>
> Dear David,
>
> Thank you so much for your elaborate reply.
> The quote I've asked clarification for comes from the webaim WCAG 2
> checklist.
> https://webaim.org/standards/wcag/checklist
>
> There's no argument about that at the backend every single fiels should be
> labeleb for screen readers - now I also understand that fields need unique
> labeling. I'm really thankful for your explaination!
>
> The concer is rather the visual clutter that visible labels will bring upon
> and how does it influence the overall usability and experience.
>
> Kindly,
> Bettina
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 5, 2023, 06:58 David Engebretson Jr. <
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> > Yah, to me, as a screen reader user I require unique and concise labels
> on
> > each element to access a form with equality to my sighted peers. Plus,
> it's
> > just good practice to have unique id's on each element so that you can
> > bring a user back to a field that might have an error on it when they
> > submit invalid data.
> >
> > To me, as an accessibility professional, I would fail a form if there
> > weren't unique id's on each element in the form. Even a unique identifier
> > such as "Name001" or "Name100" would be better than naming them all the
> > same, in my humble opinion.
> >
> > Plus, I've learned to not always trust information from blogs. Dig into
> > the WAI (Web Accessibility Initiative) and the WCAG (Web Content
> > Accessibility Guidelines) from w3.org for the objective truth regarding
> > questions and compliance concerns you might have about digital
> > accessibility techniques in design and remediation is going to lead you
> > towards honest and well thought out solutions. The w3 is probably a
> better
> > source than what you might find in a google search that guides you to
> > vendors looking for your business and/or blogs that might inadvertently
> > post recommendations that aren't always well thought through or written.
> > The WAI and WCAG documentation might not always be correct because we all
> > make mistakes, but those folks are the closest to the objective truth you
> > will find. If you analyze a problem in the documentation and guidance of
> > any w3.org sponsored page then I'm certain they would be very
> > appreciative of your feedback so the documentation isn't confusing to
> other
> > folks who are most certainly experiencing similar issues to yours.
> >
> > One other thing to keep in mind is that assistive technologies, browsers,
> > and operating systems are always changing. In my opinion there is almost
> no
> > way to ensure all people will have equitable access to all digital
> > technologies with the ever growing pace of change in the digital
> > technologies field and the ever growing population of humans with unique
> > needs like I have as someone who relies on assistive technology for
> > equitable access. The ever growing population and ever changing
> > technologies are great for us as digital technologies accessibility
> > professionals for longevity in our chosen career, but the less
> technically
> > oriented human might wonder why there isn't a simple solution to user
> > experiences that are less than accessible.
> >
> > Simple, universally usable, WCAG compliant, and consistent design of
> > digital technologies is the best place to start in my opinion.
> >
> > Keep following the WCAG guidelines and maybe, someday, we'll get closer
> to
> > a solution. I sure hope so! That's what I'm aiming for.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > David
> >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >