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From: Philip Kiff
Date: Thu, Oct 21 2004 7:45AM
Subject: WebAIM List Commands, Formatting of Digest Version, and Coding of Online Archive Version
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Some list maintenance questions and some thoughts for future possible
changes to the way the list is stored and sent.


First, my question.

I'd like to switch from receiving the Digest version to receiving the
regular version. The information on the WebAIM site doesn't quite explain
how to do this. I assume that I send a new message with the SUBSCRIBE
command, but this time don't include the DIGEST command. If that's correct,
then it would be useful to include that info on the subscribe page: it seems
a bit counterintuitive to me to have to "subscribe" a second time in order
to change one of my subscription options. I'm on a good number of other
mailing lists, most of them run using Listserv software, and I find the
WebAIM list a bit awkward since I don't have access to some of the user
controls that I'm used to. For instance, I know that after I start getting
the normal mailings, I will want to be able to turn off my messages
temporarily when I go away on vacation or something, but I'm not sure that I
will be able to do that.


Next, a couple notes about the different methods of delivery.

What I would actually prefer is to read the WebAIM list online only, and not
be subscribed to the list at all. Unfortunately, I find the online
Discussion Archive very difficult to read. This is not due to adaptive
technology issues, but simply due to the way the email texts are stored in
the online verison: many postings appear with raw HTML or with portions of
raw HTML. Also, it appears that the sort by thread function doesn't quite
work correctly -- many messages appear to be mis-sorted. As a result, I
just don't find it a good way to browse through the list messages.

I've been using the Digest version, but am getting frustrated with it, too,
since many replies include copies of previous emails, meaning I have to
scroll through multiple copies of the same message repeated in each
subsequent reply. This is normal for most Digest versions of lists, I
suppose, but at this point I'm finding the single day archive too long to
scroll through easily this way.

I wonder if there has been any thought about using a standard, off-the-shelf
mailing list or bulletin board software package for distributing and storing
messages for the WebAIM Forum. Maybe you are using one now, I'm not sure.
My impression is that some of these other software packages would be as
accessible as the system that the WebAIM list is currently using, and these
would have the added advantage of being already familiar to some users who
belong to a range of other mailing lists or bulletin boards.


Lastly, some positive feedback so you know that I'm not at all grouchy about
the list ;-)

I'm finding that this list has become increasingly interesting for me over
the past 3-4 months, and part of the reason I am commenting now on these
list maintenance items is that I think this list is worth reading and worth
making easier to read. Congrats to WebAIM and to the many contributors who
have been contributing to make this list as useful as it is becoming.


Thanks for taking a moment to think about these list maintenance issues.


Phil.

*****************************************************
Philip Kiff
Networking & Information Consultant
New Brunswick Easter Seal March of Dimes
65 Brunswick Street
Fredericton, NB E3B 1G5
Phone: (416) 760-7343
Fax: (416) 760-8324
Email: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
WWW : www.nbeastersealmarchofdimes.ca
*****************************************************
An integral part of the Canadian Health Network (CHN)
Living with Disabilities Affiliate
WWW : www.canadian-health-network.ca
*****************************************************
Visit CHN Newslink, our periodic e-bulletin:
WWW : www.nbeastersealmarchofdimes.ca/chn/newslink/
*****************************************************

From: Jared Smith
Date: Thu, Oct 21 2004 11:46AM
Subject: Re: WebAIM List Commands, Formatting of Digest Version, and Coding of Online Archive Version
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> I'd like to switch from receiving the Digest version to receiving the
> regular version. The information on the WebAIM site doesn't quite explain
> how to do this. I assume that I send a new message with the SUBSCRIBE
> command, but this time don't include the DIGEST command.

This is correct. If you send an UNSUBSCRIBE message, you will be
removed from whichever version of the list you are subscribed to. I
have added instructions to the discussion page on switching between
versions.

> I will want to be able to turn off my messages
> temporarily when I go away on vacation or something.

We are looking at implementing this functionality.

> What I would actually prefer is to read the WebAIM list online only, and not
> be subscribed to the list at all.

We do have the archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
As was pointed out, the archives do not always work perfectly.
Archiving threaded e-mail messages to the Web is quite a complex
process. Some messages are HTML, some messages contain HTML, and most
messages are plain text. Converting the messages into a pseudo-usable
format while maintaining a threaded list structure is difficult. Much
of this involves manual work on the backend for individual messages to
get them to work.

> I wonder if there has been any thought about using a standard, off-the-shelf
> mailing list or bulletin board software package for distributing and storing
> messages for the WebAIM Forum.

We are looking into a new software application that will perhaps do
much of this work automatically, but are constrained by the fact
that we do not want to lose or isolate the several thousand messages
that are currently in the archives. If any of you have list software
recommendations, send them my way.

On a related note, I am currently working on developing an accessible
Web-based forum application. This will not replace or be used in
conjunction with the e-mail list, but will be a separate mechanism for
accessibility discussions. I hope to solicit feedback on the software
in the next week or so and will do so through this list.

> I've been using the Digest version, but am getting frustrated with it, too,
> since many replies include copies of previous emails, meaning I have to
> scroll through multiple copies of the same message repeated in each
> subsequent reply.

As has been mentioned, please only quote relevant portions of the
e-mail you are replying to. Also, there has been an increased number
of "Out of the Office", "Vacation Notifications", etc. to the list.
Please do not set your e-mail software to automatically reply to
lists. Also, do not send messages to the list requesting Reading
Confirmations. Our software filters many of these messages from
reaching the list, though many slip through. Those who violate
these rules will be unsubscribed from the list without notice.

> I'm finding that this list has become increasingly interesting for me over
> the past 3-4 months, and part of the reason I am commenting now on these
> list maintenance items is that I think this list is worth reading and worth
> making easier to read. Congrats to WebAIM and to the many contributors who
> have been contributing to make this list as useful as it is becoming.

Thanks for the comments. We at WebAIM have also been thrilled with the
recent dialog and activity on the list (nearly 200,000 e-mails sent
out this month). We are continually looking to improve this service and
look forward to releasing a Web-based discussion forum in the near
future. Additional comments or recommendations can be sent to me
off-list.

Jared Smith
WebAIM (Web Accessibility In Mind)
Center for Persons with Disabilities
Utah State University