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Thread: Is this table an acceptably accessible method of marking up this information?
Number of posts in this thread: 7 (In chronological order)
From: Don Hinshaw
Date: Wed, Apr 20 2005 2:09PM
Subject: Is this table an acceptably accessible method of marking up this information?
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Hello,
I have two questions about this approach:
1/ Is this approach reasonable? I have been listening to it in IBM HPR and it seems to make good sense, and from a semantic pt of view, I think one could argue for a table (or perhaps a Definition List).
2/ If the answer to #1 is yes, is there a good way to get screen readers to pause at the end of a table row? Unless I insert a period after the "Yes" and "No" the reader races to the beginning of the next row.
Thanks for any suggestions.
http://64.132.144.101/~somedom/access/table_test.html
--
Don Hinshaw
Hinshaw Design Group
http://www.hinshawdesign.com
From: Patrick H. Lauke
Date: Wed, Apr 20 2005 2:15PM
Subject: Re: Is this table an acceptably accessible method of marking up this information?
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Don Hinshaw wrote:
> is there a good way to get screen readers
> to pause at the end of a table row? Unless I insert a period after the "Yes" and "No" the reader races to the beginning of the next row.
Just to pick up on this second part, I'd say that this is at least in part a user agent issue (i.e. how screenreaders handle tables)...but yes, if there's a quick and easy fix to get them to behave without compromising the structural integrity, go for it. However, also keep in mind that many users will work with tables in an interactive fashion, and not simply sit there and have their screenreader read the entire thing top to bottom.
--
Patrick H. Lauke
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re
From: Don Hinshaw
Date: Wed, Apr 20 2005 2:28PM
Subject: Re: Is this table an acceptably accessible method of marking up this information?
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Patrick H. Lauke wrote:
> However, also keep in mind that many users will work with tables in an interactive fashion, and not simply sit there and have their screenreader read the entire thing top to bottom.
>
I'm going to show my ignorance here, but how does one work with a table interactively, and how does that affect how it should be coded?
--
Don Hinshaw
Hinshaw Design Group
http://www.hinshawdesign.com
From: Patrick H. Lauke
Date: Wed, Apr 20 2005 2:33PM
Subject: Re: Is this table an acceptably accessible method of marking up this information?
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Don Hinshaw wrote:
> how does one work with a table
> interactively, and how does that affect how it should be coded?
As an example, in JAWS users can navigate the table cell by cell, going up/down/left/right, get information on what headers apply to the current cell, etc. Many users wouldn't just load the page and have it read top to bottom...they'll be skipping around, increasing the speed to get an overview, jumping back to certain sections, and - in this case - navigate the table to find out its contents.
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Patrick H. Lauke
_____________________________________________________
re
From: Don Hinshaw
Date: Wed, Apr 20 2005 3:45PM
Subject: Re: Is this table an acceptably accessible method of marking up this information?
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Patrick H. Lauke wrote:
> As an example, in JAWS users can navigate the table cell by cell, going up/down/left/right, get information on what headers apply to the current cell, etc. Many users wouldn't just load the page and have it read top to bottom...they'll be skipping around, increasing the speed to get an overview, jumping back to certain sections, and - in this case - navigate the table to find out its contents.
>
Thanks, that helps.
--
Don Hinshaw
Hinshaw Design Group
http://www.hinshawdesign.com
From: James Nurthen
Date: Wed, Apr 20 2005 3:47PM
Subject: Re: Is this table an acceptably accessible method of marking up this information?
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On 4/20/05, Don Hinshaw < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
Patrick H. Lauke wrote:
> However, also keep in mind that many users will work with tables in an
> interactive fashion, and not simply sit there and have their
> screenreader read the entire thing top to bottom.
>
I'm going to show my ignorance here, but how does one work with a table
interactively, and how does that affect how it should be coded?
To get a feel for the navigation (this doesn't replace proper testing - merely an easy to use visual substitute) take a look at the Mozilla Accessibility Extension
http://cita.disability.uiuc.edu/software/mozilla/index.html
--
Don Hinshaw
Hinshaw Design Group
http://www.hinshawdesign.com
From: Jim Thatcher
Date: Wed, Apr 20 2005 7:12PM
Subject: Re: Is this table an acceptably accessible method of marking up this information?
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Hi Don,
The answers so far assume that what you have presented is a data table and I
don't think it is. I think it's a layout table and in my opinion it should
not have a caption, summary or any other data table markup. So as to the
approach, I think laying out the information the way you have it is fine -
but not as a data table.
You can step through the items on the page with up and down arrow. In that
way you can get "pauses" at will. Someone asked how you navigate the table
with JAWS - use CTRL+ALT+arrows to move around the table cells. In fact when
you do that, you can hear just how much this is not a data table!
When someone first listens to their content with a screen reader there are
idiosyncrasies which screen reader users are used to that are disconcerting
at best. Don't worry about no pause at the end of the table row. And
definitely don't try to fix it!
Jim
Accessibility Consulting: http://jimthatcher.com/
512-306-0931