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Thread: Appropriate to use textarea to display text?
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From: Don Hinshaw
Date: Sat, Apr 30 2005 2:07PM
Subject: Appropriate to use textarea to display text?
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Hi there,
I am updating an existing site and they currently use a textarea to display "terms of use" information. It seems like that could be potentially confusing -- a visitor using a screen reader might think they were in a form they were required to input text to.
Is it an acceptable use? I am inclined to place a link next to a check box something like this:
<input type="checkbox" name="checkbox" value="accept" id="termsAccept">
<label for="termsAccept">I have read and accept the <a href="terms.html">terms of use.</label></a>
<br>
<input type="checkbox" name="checkbox2" value="decline" id="termsDecline">
<label for="termsDecline">I do not accept the <a href="terms.html">terms of use.</label></a>
Thanks!
--
Don Hinshaw
Hinshaw Design Group
http://www.hinshawdesign.com
From: Don Hinshaw
Date: Sat, Apr 30 2005 2:11PM
Subject: Re: Appropriate to use textarea to display text?
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Excuse my poor syntax...should have been:
<input type="checkbox" name="checkbox" value="accept" id="termsAccept">
<label for="termsAccept">I have read and accept the <a href="terms.html">terms of use.</a></label>
<br>
<input type="checkbox" name="checkbox2" value="decline" id="termsDecline">
<label for="termsDecline">I do not accept the <a href="terms.html">terms of use.</a></label>
Don Hinshaw wrote:
>
> <input type="checkbox" name="checkbox" value="accept" id="termsAccept">
> <label for="termsAccept">I have read and accept the <a href="terms.html">terms of use.</label></a>
> <br>
> <input type="checkbox" name="checkbox2" value="decline" id="termsDecline">
> <label for="termsDecline">I do not accept the <a href="terms.html">terms of use.</label></a>
>
> Thanks!
>
--
Don Hinshaw
Hinshaw Design Group
510.525.2492
http://www.hinshawdesign.com
From: Randy Pearson
Date: Sat, Apr 30 2005 3:00PM
Subject: Re: Appropriate to use textarea to display text?
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Accessibility notwithstanding, I don't think it's even valid markup to use a
TEXTAREA outside of a FORM.
That aside, your concern seems appropriate. Most likely the TEXTAREA was
used for no other purpose than to create a scrolling effect, so that lengthy
text would not push the "I Agree" links off the page. But that effect can be
achieved by placing the content in a DIV element and using CSS to size the
DIV and use "overflow: scroll;" to (nearly) duplicate the textarea
look/feel.
-- Randy
>>
From: Patrick H. Lauke
Date: Sat, Apr 30 2005 3:11PM
Subject: Re: Appropriate to use textarea to display text?
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Randy Pearson wrote:
> Accessibility notwithstanding, I don't think it's even valid markup to use a
> TEXTAREA outside of a FORM.
From the original question, I think he meant the T&C was the last part in a form.
> That aside, your concern seems appropriate.
To play devil's advocate for a second: once you make the TEXTAREA read-only, though, it becomes a bit ambiguous whether or not it's appropriate. If nothing else, having the T&C this way ensures that even when tabbing from one form widget to the next (forms mode or similar), the user is presented with the information. I'd almost argue that this solution is more usable than an equivalent CSS-driven scroll box, as the user is not required to jump out forms mode.
--
Patrick H. Lauke
_____________________________________________________
re
From: Jukka K. Korpela
Date: Sat, Apr 30 2005 3:22PM
Subject: Re: Appropriate to use textarea to display text?
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On Sat, 30 Apr 2005, Don Hinshaw wrote:
>> I am updating an existing site and they currently use a textarea to
>> display "terms of use" information. It seems like that could be
>> potentially confusing
It is, and more importantly it is foolish and annoying. It reminds people
of the absurd stamp-size windows in which they are expected to read a
dozen pages long "terms of contract" legalese text. _Nobody_ reads them.
In court, an intelligent judge may realize that, and find the terms more
or less null and void.
>> -- a visitor using a screen reader might think
>> they were in a form they were required to input text to.
Perhaps. And perhaps a scrollable div would be technically better.
But it still tells the user that this is one of the irritatingly
absurd "terms of contract" texts.
>> <input type="checkbox" name="checkbox" value="accept" id="termsAccept">
>> <label for="termsAccept">I have read and accept the <a
>> href="terms.html">terms of use.</label></a>
That's foolish, but if your company's legion of lawyers say that you need
it (probably without being able to present actual evidence), then maybe
you need to please them and not your users.
>> <input type="checkbox" name="checkbox2" value="decline" id="termsDecline">
>> <label for="termsDecline">I do not accept the <a href="terms.html">terms
>> of use.</label></a>
This, in turn, serves no other purpose but looking foolish. So the use who
does not accept the terms is told to select this checkbox and submit the
form and get a "go away" message? If you think users do not understand
that they need to check the "yes" box, then go ahead and tell them _that_.
Most importantly, ask yourself whether you really need to require anything
like that. There are lots of free services on the Web that can only be
used after going through a pointless procedure of lying that you read
something that has no real impact on anything. There are even socially
disabled peopled who have a strange obsession of telling the truth and
not telling lies the normal way.
-- Jukka "Yucca" Korpela, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
From: Randy Pearson
Date: Sat, Apr 30 2005 3:25PM
Subject: Re: Appropriate to use textarea to display text?
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>Patrick H. Lauke wrote:
>> To play devil's advocate for a second: once you make the TEXTAREA
>> read-only, though, it becomes a bit ambiguous whether or not it's
>> appropriate. If nothing else, having the T&C this way ensures
>> that even when tabbing from one form widget to the next (forms
>> mode or similar), the user is presented with the information.
>> I'd almost argue that this solution is more usable than an
>> equivalent CSS-driven scroll box, as the
>> user is not required to jump out forms mode.
Interesting points.
But some other possible arguments against the TEXTAREA:
a) Readonly elements are still successful. So when clicking
the "I Agree" button, the whole T&C text would be posted
back to the server.
b) Using the DIV approach allows the text to be formatted.
c) Printing works better using the DIV approach, as the entire
T&C can be printed, which is not the case with a TEXTAREA.
(You would remove any DIV size settings for print media.)
-- Randy
From: Patrick H. Lauke
Date: Sat, Apr 30 2005 3:30PM
Subject: Re: Appropriate to use textarea to display text?
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Jukka K. Korpela wrote:
> That's foolish, but if your company's legion of lawyers say that you need
> it (probably without being able to present actual evidence), then maybe
> you need to please them and not your users.
It's not necessarily those evil lawyers, but legislation itself that requires that users be made aware of terms and conditions before being able to enter into a formal contract...
--
Patrick H. Lauke
_____________________________________________________
re
From: Patrick H. Lauke
Date: Sat, Apr 30 2005 3:31PM
Subject: Re: Appropriate to use textarea to display text?
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Randy Pearson wrote:
> a) Readonly elements are still successful. So when clicking
> the "I Agree" button, the whole T&C text would be posted
> back to the server.
Of course there would still need to be a checkbox for the user to aknowledge that they have read and understood the T&Cs.
--
Patrick H. Lauke
_____________________________________________________
re
From: Don Hinshaw
Date: Sat, Apr 30 2005 3:51PM
Subject: Re: Appropriate to use textarea to display text?
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Randy Pearson wrote:
> c) Printing works better using the DIV approach, as the entire
> T&C can be printed, which is not the case with a TEXTAREA.
> (You would remove any DIV size settings for print media.)
>
>
>
I like the idea of the div except for one thing: it almost seems like one would need to put in a "skip t&c" link to save those folks (as Jukka said), who just say 'whatever' and click 'I agree', from having to hear the entire passage. That's what led me to the notion of just linking to the T&C copy.
--
Don Hinshaw
Hinshaw Design Group
http://www.hinshawdesign.com
From: Jukka K. Korpela
Date: Sat, Apr 30 2005 3:54PM
Subject: Re: Appropriate to use textarea to display text?
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On Sat, 30 Apr 2005, Patrick H. Lauke wrote:
>> It's not necessarily those evil lawyers, but legislation itself that
>> requires that users be made aware of terms and conditions before being
>> able to enter into a formal contract...
Quite often there's really no format contract, just some contract-like
text that lawyers use to entertain themselves and make themselves look
necessary.
Assuming there is a real contract, then the stamp-size windows work
_against_ fulfilling the principle you mention. Anyone who starts from
what the users need writes such simple terms that they can be included
into the page itself as normal content or uses a link to a page that
presents and explains the terms.
The terms and conditions are quite often incomprehensible even to educated
people, should they try to understand them. Surely the situation is much
worse to people with cognitive disabilities.
-- Jukka "Yucca" Korpela, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/