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From: Rainer Wagener
Date: Wed, Jan 24 2007 6:00AM
Subject: Headings, WCAG, Google and Me
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Hi folks at the accessibility frontline,

I have an issue with headings.

On the german CSS list [1] we just had quite an interesting but
basically off topic discussion about the appropriate use of headings.

The WCAG states the proper use of headings [2]:

"Since some users skim through a document by navigating its headings,
it is important to use them appropriately to convey document
structure. Users should order heading elements properly. For example,
in HTML, H2 elements should follow H1 elements, H3 elements should
follow H2 elements, etc. Content developers should not "skip" levels
(e.g., H1 directly to H3). "

Some people argued that Google utilizes <h1> and <h2> for ranking
purposes as <h3> to <h6> is considered plain text.
Now people tend to use headings in order to promote important terms
instead of representing document structure.
While on some occasions this approach meets well with WCAG
requirements, on others it does not.

Given the following example:

<h1>Berlin News</h1>
...
<h2>What happened Today</h2>
<h3>Merkel meets Bush</h3>

The above structure seems pretty logical to me.

But if you want to SEO (Search Engine Optimize) "Merkel" it could
turn out like this:

<h1>Berlin News</h1>
...
<h4>What happened Today</h4>
<h1>Merkel meets Bush</h1>

Note, this is just an example.

The SEO approach is to use <h1> as a paraphrase for "Important for
Google", no matter what the document structure is like.
Accordingly terms considered "Not Important for Google" are put
inside <h4> etc.

So you end up with a lot of <h1> and only incidentally representing
any document structure.

It has always been an argument that semantic markup is kind of SEO in
itself. Maybe unsemantic markup is even more SEO.

What do you think about this?


Regards, Rainer


[1] http://de.groups.yahoo.com/group/css-design
[2] www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10-HTML-TECHS/#grouping

--

www.rohschnitt.de

From: Tim Beadle
Date: Wed, Jan 24 2007 6:20AM
Subject: Re: Headings, WCAG, Google and Me
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On 24/01/07, Peter Krantz < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> In my opinion this is a rather weak foundation to base your markup
> decisions on. Will you change the content as Google updates their
> algorithm?

Indeed, but rarely do humans think about the long-term effects when
short-term (usually monetary) gain is available.

Tim

From: Rainer Wagener
Date: Wed, Jan 24 2007 6:30AM
Subject: Re: Headings, WCAG, Google and Me
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Peter Krantz wrote:

> In my opinion this is a rather weak foundation to base your markup
> decisions on. Will you change the content as Google updates their
> algorithm?

No, I'm one of the good guys ;-)

But it could become an issue with some customers of mine.


Regards, Rainer

--

www.rohschnitt.de

From: Joshue O Connor
Date: Wed, Jan 24 2007 6:50AM
Subject: Re: Headings, WCAG, Google and Me
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>> In my opinion this is a rather weak foundation to base your markup
>> > decisions on. Will you change the content as Google updates their
>> > algorithm?
>
> No, I'm one of the good guys ;-)
>
> But it could become an issue with some customers of mine.

Sorry Rainer, I didn't mean to butt in and rudely speak on your behalf!

Josh


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From: Peter Krantz
Date: Wed, Jan 24 2007 7:00AM
Subject: Re: Headings, WCAG, Google and Me
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On 1/24/07, Rainer Wagener < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> Some people argued that Google utilizes <h1> and <h2> for ranking
> purposes as <h3> to <h6> is considered plain text.

I would argue that this is where SEO optimization goes bad. You let an
hypothesis about the behaviour of a specific application (Google) have
preference over the logical structure of the document. By using H1
where e.g. H3 should be used you are likely to confuse screen reader
users or others that use the headings as a document overview.

Experience shows us that Google are:

1. keeping the exact behaviour of their ranking algorithms secret,
2. constantly changing their algorithm.

In my opinion this is a rather weak foundation to base your markup
decisions on. Will you change the content as Google updates their
algorithm?

regards,

Peter Krantz
http://www.standards-schmandards.com

From: Joshue O Connor
Date: Wed, Jan 24 2007 7:10AM
Subject: Re: Headings, WCAG, Google and Me
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Peter Krantz wrote:
> In my opinion this is a rather weak foundation to base your markup
> decisions on. Will you change the content as Google updates their
> algorithm?

No. But many probably would in order to try and anticipate Google
algorithm changes - giving enhanced accessibility the bums rush over
improved SEO.

Josh


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NCBI endeavours to ensure that emails and any attachments generated
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it cannot accept any responsibility for any such which are
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Please note that the statements and views expressed in this email
and any attachments are those of the author and do not necessarily
represent the views of NCBI


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From: Alastair Campbell
Date: Thu, Jan 25 2007 2:20AM
Subject: Re: Headings, WCAG, Google and Me
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Hi Rainer,

I think that you might be able to get the best of both, depending on
your pages set up.

The first example:

> <h1>Berlin News</h1>
> ...
> <h2>What happened Today</h2>
> <h3>Merkel meets Bush</h3>

Surely that would be the best way for a news index page? Then you would
have a specific news item page for 'Merkel':

<h1>Merkel meets Bush</h1>
....

I would also echo others about trying to adapt to an unknown and
changing Google algorithm, I'd rather keep the content logical. If they
are right about Google only looking at H1 & H2s, I would ensure that the
H1 is the main heading for that page's content, rather than 'spamming'
Google with two or more H1s.

Kind regards,

-Alastair

--
Alastair Campbell | Director of User Experience

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