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Thread: Flash and forms mode
Number of posts in this thread: 9 (In chronological order)
From: priti
Date: Tue, Feb 28 2006 12:40AM
Subject: Flash and forms mode
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Hi All,
Once again I have a query related to flash. This time round it is about forms and flash.
We have created a form in flash consisting of three edit fields and a submit button. The catch is when I tested the same with JAWS 7.0, it failed to come out of forms mode after clicking on the 'Submit' button.
The form created has one more component in it, i. e. Data Grid, that displays the data imputed in the text fields, the Data Grid gets up-dated on the click of the 'Submit' button, but JAWS is still in forms mode. I have to manually turn off forms mode, in order to read the information displayed in the Data Grid.
I also tested the form with JAWS 5.0 and Win-eyes 5.5 and surprisingly the same problem was encountered. I am wondering, if forms can be made completely accessible using flash. We are using Macromedia Flash Professional 8 for creating forms.
Any help in this regards will be highly appreciated.
Regards,
Priti Rohra
Accessibility Tester
Net Systems Informatics (I) Pvt. Ltd.
India
Tel: 91-22-26860485/6 extn: 28
E-mail: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Url: www.n-syst.com
From: Andrew Kirkpatrick
Date: Tue, Feb 28 2006 1:30PM
Subject: RE: Flash and forms mode
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Priti,
We have created a form in flash consisting of three edit fields
and a submit button. The catch is when I tested the same with JAWS 7.0,
it failed to come out of forms mode after clicking on the 'Submit'
button.
The form created has one more component in it, i. e. Data Grid,
that displays the data imputed in the text fields, the Data Grid gets
up-dated on the click of the 'Submit' button, but JAWS is still in forms
mode. I have to manually turn off forms mode, in order to read the
information displayed in the Data Grid.
I also tested the form with JAWS 5.0 and Win-eyes 5.5 and
surprisingly the same problem was encountered. I am wondering, if forms
can be made completely accessible using flash. We are using Macromedia
Flash Professional 8 for creating forms.
Screen readers make decisions when interacting with Flash content (and
javascript content) about whether an action amounts to the type of
change that should affect the interaction mode or trigger a
reconstruction of the off-screen model. In this case, it sounds like
the behavior you're describing is what I'd expect. The user is still
interacting with the same form and the flash screen has not refreshed in
any substantial way, so staying in forms mode is the right behavior.
Make sure that you are enabling accessibility for the datagrid and
screen reader users will be able to hear the content. Add the following
actionscript to enable accessiblity for the grid:
import mx.accessibility.DataGridAccImpl;
DataGridAccImpl.enableAccessibility();
Hope this helps,
AWK
From: priti
Date: Tue, Feb 28 2006 10:30PM
Subject: Re: Flash and forms mode
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Hi Andrew,
Thanks for the information, but we have enabled the accessibility of the Data Grid component. This is not the case, I have encountered the same problem with different flash presentations. Even in the case of flash presentations, wherein the user has to input data in the Text Input field and press 'ENTER', Jaws continues to remain in forms mode and does not read the information updated on the screen.
Regards,
Priti Rohra
Accessibility Tester
Net Systems Informatics (I) Pvt. Ltd.
India
Tel: 91-22-26860485/6 extn: 28
E-mail: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Url: www.n-syst.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Andrew Kirkpatrick
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 1:53 AM
Subject: RE: [WebAIM] Flash and forms mode
Priti,
We have created a form in flash consisting of three edit fields and a submit button. The catch is when I tested the same with JAWS 7.0, it failed to come out of forms mode after clicking on the 'Submit' button.
The form created has one more component in it, i. e. Data Grid, that displays the data imputed in the text fields, the Data Grid gets up-dated on the click of the 'Submit' button, but JAWS is still in forms mode. I have to manually turn off forms mode, in order to read the information displayed in the Data Grid.
I also tested the form with JAWS 5.0 and Win-eyes 5.5 and surprisingly the same problem was encountered. I am wondering, if forms can be made completely accessible using flash. We are using Macromedia Flash Professional 8 for creating forms.
Screen readers make decisions when interacting with Flash content (and javascript content) about whether an action amounts to the type of change that should affect the interaction mode or trigger a reconstruction of the off-screen model. In this case, it sounds like the behavior you're describing is what I'd expect. The user is still interacting with the same form and the flash screen has not refreshed in any substantial way, so staying in forms mode is the right behavior.
Make sure that you are enabling accessibility for the datagrid and screen reader users will be able to hear the content. Add the following actionscript to enable accessiblity for the grid:
import mx.accessibility.DataGridAccImpl;
DataGridAccImpl.enableAccessibility();
Hope this helps,
AWK
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Andrew Kirkpatrick
Date: Wed, Mar 01 2006 4:20AM
Subject: RE: Flash and forms mode
← Previous message | Next message →
Prithi,
Thanks for the information, but we have enabled the
accessibility of the Data Grid component. This is not the case, I have
encountered the same problem with different flash presentations. Even in
the case of flash presentations, wherein the user has to input data in
the Text Input field and press 'ENTER', Jaws continues to remain in
forms mode and does not read the information updated on the screen.
It does in my quick example:
http://weblogs.macromedia.com/accessibility/archives/formsmode/datagrid_
formsmode.html
<http://weblogs.macromedia.com/accessibility/archives/formsmode/datagrid
_formsmode.html>
You can get the source at:
http://weblogs.macromedia.com/accessibility/archives/formsmode/datagrid_
formsmode.fla (Opens in Flash 8)
After you hit "space" on the 'add to grid' button, tab to the grid.
JAWS will read "listbox" (that's what a datagrid is) and you can arrow
down through the rows, including the new one.
Let me know how it goes.
AWK
Andrew Kirkpatrick
Accessibility Engineer
Adobe Systems
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
From: priti
Date: Wed, Mar 01 2006 11:20PM
Subject: Re: Flash and forms mode
← Previous message | Next message →
Hi Andrew,
Thanks for the example. But in this example also, when I press 'Spacebar' on the Add to grid button, JAWS remains in forms mode. Surprisingly, When I select the Add to grid button, from the Forms list dialog box--JAWS(Insert+F5), the forms mode is turned off.
Regards,
Priti Rohra
Accessibility Tester
Net Systems Informatics (I) Pvt. Ltd.
India
Tel: 91-22-26860485/6 extn: 28
E-mail: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Url: www.n-syst.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Andrew Kirkpatrick
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 4:46 PM
Subject: RE: [WebAIM] Flash and forms mode
Prithi,
Thanks for the information, but we have enabled the accessibility of the Data Grid component. This is not the case, I have encountered the same problem with different flash presentations. Even in the case of flash presentations, wherein the user has to input data in the Text Input field and press 'ENTER', Jaws continues to remain in forms mode and does not read the information updated on the screen.
It does in my quick example: http://weblogs.macromedia.com/accessibility/archives/formsmode/datagrid_formsmode.html
You can get the source at: http://weblogs.macromedia.com/accessibility/archives/formsmode/datagrid_formsmode.fla (Opens in Flash 8)
After you hit "space" on the 'add to grid' button, tab to the grid. JAWS will read "listbox" (that's what a datagrid is) and you can arrow down through the rows, including the new one.
Let me know how it goes.
AWK
Andrew Kirkpatrick
Accessibility Engineer
Adobe Systems
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Andrew Kirkpatrick
Date: Thu, Mar 02 2006 4:50AM
Subject: RE: Flash and forms mode
← Previous message | Next message →
I haven't been clear enough. Staying in forms mode is good in this
case. The user just needs to tab to move the focus to the grid to get
access to the new info.
awk
________________________________
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of priti
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 1:19 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Flash and forms mode
Hi Andrew,
Thanks for the example. But in this example also, when I press
'Spacebar' on the Add to grid button, JAWS remains in forms mode.
Surprisingly, When I select the Add to grid button, from the Forms list
dialog box--JAWS(Insert+F5), the forms mode is turned off.
Regards,
Priti Rohra
Accessibility Tester
Net Systems Informatics (I) Pvt. Ltd.
India
Tel: 91-22-26860485/6 extn: 28
E-mail: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Url: www.n-syst.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Andrew Kirkpatrick <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
To: WebAIM Discussion List
<mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 4:46 PM
Subject: RE: [WebAIM] Flash and forms mode
Prithi,
Thanks for the information, but we have enabled
the accessibility of the Data Grid component. This is not the case, I
have encountered the same problem with different flash presentations.
Even in the case of flash presentations, wherein the user has to input
data in the Text Input field and press 'ENTER', Jaws continues to remain
in forms mode and does not read the information updated on the screen.
It does in my quick example:
http://weblogs.macromedia.com/accessibility/archives/formsmode/datagrid_
formsmode.html
<http://weblogs.macromedia.com/accessibility/archives/formsmode/datagrid
_formsmode.html>
You can get the source at:
http://weblogs.macromedia.com/accessibility/archives/formsmode/datagrid_
formsmode.fla (Opens in Flash 8)
After you hit "space" on the 'add to grid' button, tab
to the grid. JAWS will read "listbox" (that's what a datagrid is) and
you can arrow down through the rows, including the new one.
Let me know how it goes.
AWK
Andrew Kirkpatrick
Accessibility Engineer
Adobe Systems
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
________________________________
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From: priti
Date: Thu, Mar 02 2006 6:30AM
Subject: Re: Flash and forms mode
← Previous message | Next message →
Hi Andrew,
Agreed, but the question still remains their, how does the user come out of forms mode?
In this situation, as a JAWS user myself, I find only two solutions for the problem:
1 To manually turn off forms mode--Numpad Plus on the numeric keypad with Numlock off.
2 Close the window
The user needs to come out of forms mode, right. I have experienced the same problem on other accessible flash examples on the internet.
Examples whereby the user is informed about successfully completing a task after providing the last correct value in the text input field, text is displayed on the screen stating the user about their success. JAWS remains in forms mode, and the user has to manually turn off forms mode to read the up-dated information. What can be the solution for such a situation?
Its been nice to hear from you, hope to hear from you soon this time as well.
Regards,
Priti Rohra
Accessibility Tester
Net Systems Informatics (I) Pvt. Ltd.
India
Tel: 91-22-26860485/6 extn: 28
E-mail: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Url: www.n-syst.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Andrew Kirkpatrick
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 5:12 PM
Subject: RE: [WebAIM] Flash and forms mode
I haven't been clear enough. Staying in forms mode is good in this case. The user just needs to tab to move the focus to the grid to get access to the new info.
awk
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of priti
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 1:19 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Flash and forms mode
Hi Andrew,
Thanks for the example. But in this example also, when I press 'Spacebar' on the Add to grid button, JAWS remains in forms mode. Surprisingly, When I select the Add to grid button, from the Forms list dialog box--JAWS(Insert+F5), the forms mode is turned off.
Regards,
Priti Rohra
Accessibility Tester
Net Systems Informatics (I) Pvt. Ltd.
India
Tel: 91-22-26860485/6 extn: 28
E-mail: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Url: www.n-syst.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Andrew Kirkpatrick
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 4:46 PM
Subject: RE: [WebAIM] Flash and forms mode
Prithi,
Thanks for the information, but we have enabled the accessibility of the Data Grid component. This is not the case, I have encountered the same problem with different flash presentations. Even in the case of flash presentations, wherein the user has to input data in the Text Input field and press 'ENTER', Jaws continues to remain in forms mode and does not read the information updated on the screen.
It does in my quick example: http://weblogs.macromedia.com/accessibility/archives/formsmode/datagrid_formsmode.html
You can get the source at: http://weblogs.macromedia.com/accessibility/archives/formsmode/datagrid_formsmode.fla (Opens in Flash 8)
After you hit "space" on the 'add to grid' button, tab to the grid. JAWS will read "listbox" (that's what a datagrid is) and you can arrow down through the rows, including the new one.
Let me know how it goes.
AWK
Andrew Kirkpatrick
Accessibility Engineer
Adobe Systems
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Andrew Kirkpatrick
Date: Thu, Mar 02 2006 6:50AM
Subject: RE: Flash and forms mode
← Previous message | Next message →
Priti,
Agreed, but the question still remains their, how does the user
come out of forms mode?
It may be necessary to do so manually in some cases, as you've
indicated. I would regard this as undesireable and would encourage
developers to test their applications with screen reader users to help
reduce this need.
Examples whereby the user is informed about successfully
completing a task after providing the last correct value in the text
input field, text is displayed on the screen stating the user about
their success. JAWS remains in forms mode, and the user has to manually
turn off forms mode to read the up-dated information. What can be the
solution for such a situation?
It depends on how the information is presented. If enough of the
content tree is changed then forms mode may go off without directing
JAWS to do so. There are additional components that can help here also
- if you use an alert component for example, you can bring this into the
application to provide the messaging and it may not be necessary for the
user to leave forms mode to complete the task.
It sounds like you are building a web application rather than what many
people think of when they think of a flash movie. In Flash applications
it is desireable to be in forms mode almost all the time.
Its been nice to hear from you, hope to hear from you soon this
time as well.
Soon enough?
AWK
Andrew Kirkpatrick
Accessibility Engineer
Adobe Systems
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
From: priti
Date: Thu, Mar 02 2006 7:00AM
Subject: Re: Flash and forms mode
← Previous message | No next message
Hi Andrew,
Ya, It was soon enough...
Thanks a lot for the feedback it was wonderful to share ideas with you.
Regards,
Priti Rohra
Accessibility Tester
Net Systems Informatics (I) Pvt. Ltd.
India
Tel: 91-22-26860485/6 extn: 28
E-mail: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Url: www.n-syst.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Andrew Kirkpatrick
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 7:11 PM
Subject: RE: [WebAIM] Flash and forms mode
Priti,
Agreed, but the question still remains their, how does the user come out of forms mode?
It may be necessary to do so manually in some cases, as you've indicated. I would regard this as undesireable and would encourage developers to test their applications with screen reader users to help reduce this need.
Examples whereby the user is informed about successfully completing a task after providing the last correct value in the text input field, text is displayed on the screen stating the user about their success. JAWS remains in forms mode, and the user has to manually turn off forms mode to read the up-dated information. What can be the solution for such a situation?
It depends on how the information is presented. If enough of the content tree is changed then forms mode may go off without directing JAWS to do so. There are additional components that can help here also - if you use an alert component for example, you can bring this into the application to provide the messaging and it may not be necessary for the user to leave forms mode to complete the task.
It sounds like you are building a web application rather than what many people think of when they think of a flash movie. In Flash applications it is desireable to be in forms mode almost all the time.
Its been nice to hear from you, hope to hear from you soon this time as well.
Soon enough?
AWK
Andrew Kirkpatrick
Accessibility Engineer
Adobe Systems
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
------------------------------------------------------------------------------