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From: Judith.A.Blankman@wellsfargo.com
Date: Fri, Nov 04 2016 5:10PM
Subject: Dynamic fields - disabled CSS experience?
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When an experience relies on CSS to deliver a dynamic experience, is it reasonable (and/or required by WCAG) to expect an exactly matched experience when CSS is turned off?

For example, in a fieldset, the selection of an option in a drop down, or the selection of a radio button, initiates the list of options presented in a subsequent field. It might even determine the display of a secondary field. CSS drives whether fields are hidden or present.

A tester identified a confusing experience in a complex interaction when CSS was turned off. The secondary field choices were available prior to the first field selection being made. While this doesn't prevent the completion of a task, I realize it's confusing when fields are populated out of order.

Should developers dynamically disable a field vs. just hiding it until the selection in the first field is made?

I'm also wondering if turning off CSS when using online forms is a likely use case for people with low vision, who have display preferences for a range of needs, or prefer their own style sheets, etc. Or, do people with display preferences choose to not turn off CSS when using online forms due to their complexity?

I definitely don't want to deliver something that is confusing. Am trying to gauge the impact.

Just another Friday afternoon scratching my head ...

Thanks!

Judith Blankman

From: Jonathan Avila
Date: Fri, Nov 04 2016 5:31PM
Subject: Re: Dynamic fields - disabled CSS experience?
← Previous message | Next message →

> I'm also wondering if turning off CSS when using online forms is a likely use case for people with low vision, who have display preferences for a range of needs, or prefer their own style sheets, etc. Or, do people with display preferences choose to not turn off CSS when using online forms due to their complexity?

Some people with low vision create their own stylesheets to layer in customize colors, fonts, spacing, etc. and may want to change content or put content into one column. In most but not all of these situations people are adding their own stylesheet on top of the sites existing stylesheets. It is not a requirement of the current WCAG 2 Level A or AA to work with CSS completely turned off. The current Section 508 standards do imply documents should work without a stylesheet -- but this will soon be replaced by WCAG 2 and many people do not enforce this. Most modern content defines CSS for different breakpoints and content is often hidden until used -- so it's not unreasonable to expect the display and visibility styles on a web page to be respected.

FYI According to the WebAIM low vision survey in 2013 19% of people changed the page colors or style sheets http://webaim.org/projects/lowvisionsurvey/#at

Jonathan

Jonathan Avila
Chief Accessibility Officer
SSB BART Group 
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
703.637.8957 (Office)

Visit us online: Website | Twitter | Facebook | Linkedin | Blog
Check out our Digital Accessibility Webinars!


-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2016 7:11 PM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: [WebAIM] Dynamic fields - disabled CSS experience?

When an experience relies on CSS to deliver a dynamic experience, is it reasonable (and/or required by WCAG) to expect an exactly matched experience when CSS is turned off?

For example, in a fieldset, the selection of an option in a drop down, or the selection of a radio button, initiates the list of options presented in a subsequent field. It might even determine the display of a secondary field. CSS drives whether fields are hidden or present.

A tester identified a confusing experience in a complex interaction when CSS was turned off. The secondary field choices were available prior to the first field selection being made. While this doesn't prevent the completion of a task, I realize it's confusing when fields are populated out of order.

Should developers dynamically disable a field vs. just hiding it until the selection in the first field is made?

I'm also wondering if turning off CSS when using online forms is a likely use case for people with low vision, who have display preferences for a range of needs, or prefer their own style sheets, etc. Or, do people with display preferences choose to not turn off CSS when using online forms due to their complexity?

I definitely don't want to deliver something that is confusing. Am trying to gauge the impact.

Just another Friday afternoon scratching my head ...

Thanks!

Judith Blankman

From: Judith.A.Blankman@wellsfargo.com
Date: Fri, Nov 04 2016 6:14PM
Subject: Re: Dynamic fields - disabled CSS experience?
← Previous message | Next message →

Thanks, Jonathan, really appreciate your response!

On 11/4/16, 4:31 PM, "WebAIM-Forum on behalf of Jonathan Avila" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = on behalf of = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> I'm also wondering if turning off CSS when using online forms is a likely use case for people with low vision, who have display preferences for a range of needs, or prefer their own style sheets, etc. Or, do people with display preferences choose to not turn off CSS when using online forms due to their complexity?

Some people with low vision create their own stylesheets to layer in customize colors, fonts, spacing, etc. and may want to change content or put content into one column. In most but not all of these situations people are adding their own stylesheet on top of the sites existing stylesheets. It is not a requirement of the current WCAG 2 Level A or AA to work with CSS completely turned off. The current Section 508 standards do imply documents should work without a stylesheet -- but this will soon be replaced by WCAG 2 and many people do not enforce this. Most modern content defines CSS for different breakpoints and content is often hidden until used -- so it's not unreasonable to expect the display and visibility styles on a web page to be respected.

FYI According to the WebAIM low vision survey in 2013 19% of people changed the page colors or style sheets http://webaim.org/projects/lowvisionsurvey/#at

Jonathan

Jonathan Avila
Chief Accessibility Officer
SSB BART Group
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
703.637.8957 (Office)

Visit us online: Website | Twitter | Facebook | Linkedin | Blog
Check out our Digital Accessibility Webinars!


-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2016 7:11 PM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: [WebAIM] Dynamic fields - disabled CSS experience?

When an experience relies on CSS to deliver a dynamic experience, is it reasonable (and/or required by WCAG) to expect an exactly matched experience when CSS is turned off?

For example, in a fieldset, the selection of an option in a drop down, or the selection of a radio button, initiates the list of options presented in a subsequent field. It might even determine the display of a secondary field. CSS drives whether fields are hidden or present.

A tester identified a confusing experience in a complex interaction when CSS was turned off. The secondary field choices were available prior to the first field selection being made. While this doesn't prevent the completion of a task, I realize it's confusing when fields are populated out of order.

Should developers dynamically disable a field vs. just hiding it until the selection in the first field is made?

I'm also wondering if turning off CSS when using online forms is a likely use case for people with low vision, who have display preferences for a range of needs, or prefer their own style sheets, etc. Or, do people with display preferences choose to not turn off CSS when using online forms due to their complexity?

I definitely don't want to deliver something that is confusing. Am trying to gauge the impact.

Just another Friday afternoon scratching my head ...

Thanks!

Judith Blankman

From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Sat, Nov 05 2016 7:22AM
Subject: Re: Dynamic fields - disabled CSS experience?
← Previous message | Next message →

By disabled CSS, do you mean using display: none; to hide form fields
until they become relevant, then dynamically display them baed on user
interactions with other parts of the form?
What about using the html hidden attribute in addition to display:
none; to hide the content?
https://davidwalsh.name/html5-hidden

Just make sure that the reading and focus order of the content is logical.



On 11/4/16, = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Thanks, Jonathan, really appreciate your response!
>
> On 11/4/16, 4:31 PM, "WebAIM-Forum on behalf of Jonathan Avila"
> < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = on behalf of
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> > I'm also wondering if turning off CSS when using online forms is a
> likely use case for people with low vision, who have display preferences for
> a range of needs, or prefer their own style sheets, etc. Or, do people with
> display preferences choose to not turn off CSS when using online forms due
> to their complexity?
>
> Some people with low vision create their own stylesheets to layer in
> customize colors, fonts, spacing, etc. and may want to change content or put
> content into one column. In most but not all of these situations people are
> adding their own stylesheet on top of the sites existing stylesheets. It is
> not a requirement of the current WCAG 2 Level A or AA to work with CSS
> completely turned off. The current Section 508 standards do imply documents
> should work without a stylesheet -- but this will soon be replaced by WCAG 2
> and many people do not enforce this. Most modern content defines CSS for
> different breakpoints and content is often hidden until used -- so it's not
> unreasonable to expect the display and visibility styles on a web page to be
> respected.
>
> FYI According to the WebAIM low vision survey in 2013 19% of people
> changed the page colors or style sheets
> http://webaim.org/projects/lowvisionsurvey/#at
>
> Jonathan
>
> Jonathan Avila
> Chief Accessibility Officer
> SSB BART Group
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> 703.637.8957 (Office)
>
> Visit us online: Website | Twitter | Facebook | Linkedin | Blog
> Check out our Digital Accessibility Webinars!
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
> Behalf Of = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Sent: Friday, November 04, 2016 7:11 PM
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Subject: [WebAIM] Dynamic fields - disabled CSS experience?
>
> When an experience relies on CSS to deliver a dynamic experience, is it
> reasonable (and/or required by WCAG) to expect an exactly matched experience
> when CSS is turned off?
>
> For example, in a fieldset, the selection of an option in a drop down,
> or the selection of a radio button, initiates the list of options presented
> in a subsequent field. It might even determine the display of a secondary
> field. CSS drives whether fields are hidden or present.
>
> A tester identified a confusing experience in a complex interaction when
> CSS was turned off. The secondary field choices were available prior to the
> first field selection being made. While this doesn't prevent the completion
> of a task, I realize it's confusing when fields are populated out of order.
>
> Should developers dynamically disable a field vs. just hiding it until
> the selection in the first field is made?
>
> I'm also wondering if turning off CSS when using online forms is a
> likely use case for people with low vision, who have display preferences for
> a range of needs, or prefer their own style sheets, etc. Or, do people with
> display preferences choose to not turn off CSS when using online forms due
> to their complexity?
>
> I definitely don't want to deliver something that is confusing. Am
> trying to gauge the impact.
>
> Just another Friday afternoon scratching my head ...
>
> Thanks!
>
> Judith Blankman
>
> > > at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > >
>
> > > > >


--
Work hard. Have fun. Make history.

From: Judith.A.Blankman@wellsfargo.com
Date: Wed, Nov 09 2016 3:56PM
Subject: Re: Dynamic fields - disabled CSS experience?
← Previous message | No next message

Bikir,

I'm not the developer, so not exactly sure what they are using, but I assume they are using the correct CSS attribute to hide the info dynamically until it is relevant.

I will pass the option to use the HTML hidden attribute, in case that might help.


Thanks!

Judith



On 11/5/16, 6:22 AM, "WebAIM-Forum on behalf of Birkir R. Gunnarsson" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = on behalf of = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

By disabled CSS, do you mean using display: none; to hide form fields
until they become relevant, then dynamically display them baed on user
interactions with other parts of the form?
What about using the html hidden attribute in addition to display:
none; to hide the content?
https://davidwalsh.name/html5-hidden

Just make sure that the reading and focus order of the content is logical.



On 11/4/16, = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Thanks, Jonathan, really appreciate your response!
>
> On 11/4/16, 4:31 PM, "WebAIM-Forum on behalf of Jonathan Avila"
> < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = on behalf of
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> > I'm also wondering if turning off CSS when using online forms is a
> likely use case for people with low vision, who have display preferences for
> a range of needs, or prefer their own style sheets, etc. Or, do people with
> display preferences choose to not turn off CSS when using online forms due
> to their complexity?
>
> Some people with low vision create their own stylesheets to layer in
> customize colors, fonts, spacing, etc. and may want to change content or put
> content into one column. In most but not all of these situations people are
> adding their own stylesheet on top of the sites existing stylesheets. It is
> not a requirement of the current WCAG 2 Level A or AA to work with CSS
> completely turned off. The current Section 508 standards do imply documents
> should work without a stylesheet -- but this will soon be replaced by WCAG 2
> and many people do not enforce this. Most modern content defines CSS for
> different breakpoints and content is often hidden until used -- so it's not
> unreasonable to expect the display and visibility styles on a web page to be
> respected.
>
> FYI According to the WebAIM low vision survey in 2013 19% of people
> changed the page colors or style sheets
> http://webaim.org/projects/lowvisionsurvey/#at
>
> Jonathan
>
> Jonathan Avila
> Chief Accessibility Officer
> SSB BART Group
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> 703.637.8957 (Office)
>
> Visit us online: Website | Twitter | Facebook | Linkedin | Blog
> Check out our Digital Accessibility Webinars!
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
> Behalf Of = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Sent: Friday, November 04, 2016 7:11 PM
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Subject: [WebAIM] Dynamic fields - disabled CSS experience?
>
> When an experience relies on CSS to deliver a dynamic experience, is it
> reasonable (and/or required by WCAG) to expect an exactly matched experience
> when CSS is turned off?
>
> For example, in a fieldset, the selection of an option in a drop down,
> or the selection of a radio button, initiates the list of options presented
> in a subsequent field. It might even determine the display of a secondary
> field. CSS drives whether fields are hidden or present.
>
> A tester identified a confusing experience in a complex interaction when
> CSS was turned off. The secondary field choices were available prior to the
> first field selection being made. While this doesn't prevent the completion
> of a task, I realize it's confusing when fields are populated out of order.
>
> Should developers dynamically disable a field vs. just hiding it until
> the selection in the first field is made?
>
> I'm also wondering if turning off CSS when using online forms is a
> likely use case for people with low vision, who have display preferences for
> a range of needs, or prefer their own style sheets, etc. Or, do people with
> display preferences choose to not turn off CSS when using online forms due
> to their complexity?
>
> I definitely don't want to deliver something that is confusing. Am
> trying to gauge the impact.
>
> Just another Friday afternoon scratching my head ...
>
> Thanks!
>
> Judith Blankman
>
> > > at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > >
>
> > > > >


--
Work hard. Have fun. Make history.