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Thread: PDF tagged or not?
Number of posts in this thread: 9 (In chronological order)
From: L Snider
Date: Tue, Apr 03 2018 9:05AM
Subject: PDF tagged or not?
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Hi All,
I have run into a PDF that has tags (done in Word and then added pages in
InDesign or similar) in the Tag Window but the Checker says it isn't tagged
and the Properties box says there are no tags.
I came across this once way, way back and it could have been that someone
inadvertently did temporary tags through the set up assistant and this
caused the weirdness.
I don't think this is the case here, but it could be. I haven't seen this
for a long time, so I wondered what can cause a tagged PDF to be seen as
not tagged? Just wondering if there are more reasons now than there were
years ago,
Cheers
Lisa
From: L Snider
Date: Tue, Apr 03 2018 9:10AM
Subject: Re: PDF tagged or not?
← Previous message | Next message →
Oh and could this be a case of the Word document being tagged and the
InDesign one not being tagged (or vice versa) and so the PDF thought it
wasn't tagged, even though it has tags? That is the only other way I can
see this happening. The whole document is tagged on all pages, which is why
I wondered if my idea was right.
Cheers
Lisa
On Tue, Apr 3, 2018 at 10:05 AM, L Snider < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I have run into a PDF that has tags (done in Word and then added pages in
> InDesign or similar) in the Tag Window but the Checker says it isn't tagged
> and the Properties box says there are no tags.
>
> I came across this once way, way back and it could have been that someone
> inadvertently did temporary tags through the set up assistant and this
> caused the weirdness.
>
> I don't think this is the case here, but it could be. I haven't seen this
> for a long time, so I wondered what can cause a tagged PDF to be seen as
> not tagged? Just wondering if there are more reasons now than there were
> years ago,
>
> Cheers
>
> Lisa
>
From: Philip Kiff
Date: Tue, Apr 03 2018 9:12AM
Subject: Re: PDF tagged or not?
← Previous message | Next message →
I think there may be an internal flag in the PDF format that identifies
a file as tagged or not. If software doesn't play nicely with the PDF
format, it may simply omit setting that flag? Or maybe it is missing or
has a malformed root tag in the tag tree?
Regardless of the cause, if I recall correctly, to fix this, you should
be able to just right-click the error in Acrobat DC and select "fix"?
Phil.
On 2018-04-03 11:05 AM, L Snider wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I have run into a PDF that has tags (done in Word and then added pages in
> InDesign or similar) in the Tag Window but the Checker says it isn't tagged
> and the Properties box says there are no tags.
>
> I came across this once way, way back and it could have been that someone
> inadvertently did temporary tags through the set up assistant and this
> caused the weirdness.
>
> I don't think this is the case here, but it could be. I haven't seen this
> for a long time, so I wondered what can cause a tagged PDF to be seen as
> not tagged? Just wondering if there are more reasons now than there were
> years ago,
>
> Cheers
>
> Lisa
> > > >
From: Josh Schroder
Date: Tue, Apr 03 2018 9:24AM
Subject: Re: PDF tagged or not?
← Previous message | Next message →
In Acrobat, you should be able to right click on any item in the tags tree, and you will see a menu item labeled "Document is Tagged PDF."
You can see a screen capture of this setting here:
https://forums.adobe.com/thread/612353
This setting sets the internal flag that the document is tagged, regardless of whether or not it is. The flag should get set when the tags are added by Word or whatever authoring software, but there are some cases where the flag won't match up with the actual tags that are present.
Josh Schroder
Web Administrator III
Office of Strategic Communication
Texas Department of Licensing and Regulation
(512) 936-8937
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Philip Kiff
Sent: Tuesday, April 3, 2018 10:12 AM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] PDF tagged or not?
I think there may be an internal flag in the PDF format that identifies a file as tagged or not. If software doesn't play nicely with the PDF format, it may simply omit setting that flag? Or maybe it is missing or has a malformed root tag in the tag tree?
Regardless of the cause, if I recall correctly, to fix this, you should be able to just right-click the error in Acrobat DC and select "fix"?
Phil.
On 2018-04-03 11:05 AM, L Snider wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I have run into a PDF that has tags (done in Word and then added pages
> in InDesign or similar) in the Tag Window but the Checker says it
> isn't tagged and the Properties box says there are no tags.
>
> I came across this once way, way back and it could have been that
> someone inadvertently did temporary tags through the set up assistant
> and this caused the weirdness.
>
> I don't think this is the case here, but it could be. I haven't seen
> this for a long time, so I wondered what can cause a tagged PDF to be
> seen as not tagged? Just wondering if there are more reasons now than
> there were years ago,
>
> Cheers
>
> Lisa
> > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>
From: L Snider
Date: Tue, Apr 03 2018 9:34AM
Subject: Re: PDF tagged or not?
← Previous message | Next message →
Hi Phil,
Yes, you can fix it but I wondered what it would fix, in terms of what
caused this to happen. It is odd.
The PDF also has no layers and I haven't seen that in a while either.
Cheers
Lisa
On Tue, Apr 3, 2018 at 10:24 AM, Josh Schroder < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> wrote:
> In Acrobat, you should be able to right click on any item in the tags
> tree, and you will see a menu item labeled "Document is Tagged PDF."
>
> You can see a screen capture of this setting here:
> https://forums.adobe.com/thread/612353
>
> This setting sets the internal flag that the document is tagged,
> regardless of whether or not it is. The flag should get set when the tags
> are added by Word or whatever authoring software, but there are some cases
> where the flag won't match up with the actual tags that are present.
>
> Josh Schroder
> Web Administrator III
> Office of Strategic Communication
> Texas Department of Licensing and Regulation
> (512) 936-8937
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
> Behalf Of Philip Kiff
> Sent: Tuesday, April 3, 2018 10:12 AM
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] PDF tagged or not?
>
> I think there may be an internal flag in the PDF format that identifies a
> file as tagged or not. If software doesn't play nicely with the PDF format,
> it may simply omit setting that flag? Or maybe it is missing or has a
> malformed root tag in the tag tree?
>
> Regardless of the cause, if I recall correctly, to fix this, you should be
> able to just right-click the error in Acrobat DC and select "fix"?
>
> Phil.
>
>
> On 2018-04-03 11:05 AM, L Snider wrote:
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I have run into a PDF that has tags (done in Word and then added pages
> > in InDesign or similar) in the Tag Window but the Checker says it
> > isn't tagged and the Properties box says there are no tags.
> >
> > I came across this once way, way back and it could have been that
> > someone inadvertently did temporary tags through the set up assistant
> > and this caused the weirdness.
> >
> > I don't think this is the case here, but it could be. I haven't seen
> > this for a long time, so I wondered what can cause a tagged PDF to be
> > seen as not tagged? Just wondering if there are more reasons now than
> > there were years ago,
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Lisa
> > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > >
> > > at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > >
From: L Snider
Date: Tue, Apr 03 2018 9:35AM
Subject: Re: PDF tagged or not?
← Previous message | Next message →
Hi Josh,
Yep, the document is tagged in that menu. That is tied I think to the
properties setting, which is also a Yes for tags. It is just the checker
that is off.
Odd!
Cheers
Lisa
On Tue, Apr 3, 2018 at 10:24 AM, Josh Schroder < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> wrote:
> In Acrobat, you should be able to right click on any item in the tags
> tree, and you will see a menu item labeled "Document is Tagged PDF."
>
> You can see a screen capture of this setting here:
> https://forums.adobe.com/thread/612353
>
> This setting sets the internal flag that the document is tagged,
> regardless of whether or not it is. The flag should get set when the tags
> are added by Word or whatever authoring software, but there are some cases
> where the flag won't match up with the actual tags that are present.
>
> Josh Schroder
> Web Administrator III
> Office of Strategic Communication
> Texas Department of Licensing and Regulation
> (512) 936-8937
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
> Behalf Of Philip Kiff
> Sent: Tuesday, April 3, 2018 10:12 AM
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] PDF tagged or not?
>
> I think there may be an internal flag in the PDF format that identifies a
> file as tagged or not. If software doesn't play nicely with the PDF format,
> it may simply omit setting that flag? Or maybe it is missing or has a
> malformed root tag in the tag tree?
>
> Regardless of the cause, if I recall correctly, to fix this, you should be
> able to just right-click the error in Acrobat DC and select "fix"?
>
> Phil.
>
>
> On 2018-04-03 11:05 AM, L Snider wrote:
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I have run into a PDF that has tags (done in Word and then added pages
> > in InDesign or similar) in the Tag Window but the Checker says it
> > isn't tagged and the Properties box says there are no tags.
> >
> > I came across this once way, way back and it could have been that
> > someone inadvertently did temporary tags through the set up assistant
> > and this caused the weirdness.
> >
> > I don't think this is the case here, but it could be. I haven't seen
> > this for a long time, so I wondered what can cause a tagged PDF to be
> > seen as not tagged? Just wondering if there are more reasons now than
> > there were years ago,
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Lisa
> > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > >
> > > at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > >
From: Josh Schroder
Date: Tue, Apr 03 2018 10:02AM
Subject: Re: PDF tagged or not?
← Previous message | Next message →
Hi Lisa,
That is odd, indeed. I haven't seen that one before.
Have you tested it with a screen reader to see what happens?
Josh
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of L Snider
Sent: Tuesday, April 3, 2018 10:36 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] PDF tagged or not?
Hi Josh,
Yep, the document is tagged in that menu. That is tied I think to the properties setting, which is also a Yes for tags. It is just the checker that is off.
Odd!
Cheers
Lisa
On Tue, Apr 3, 2018 at 10:24 AM, Josh Schroder < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> wrote:
> In Acrobat, you should be able to right click on any item in the tags
> tree, and you will see a menu item labeled "Document is Tagged PDF."
>
> You can see a screen capture of this setting here:
> https://forums.adobe.com/thread/612353
>
> This setting sets the internal flag that the document is tagged,
> regardless of whether or not it is. The flag should get set when the
> tags are added by Word or whatever authoring software, but there are
> some cases where the flag won't match up with the actual tags that are present.
>
> Josh Schroder
> Web Administrator III
> Office of Strategic Communication
> Texas Department of Licensing and Regulation
> (512) 936-8937
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
> Behalf Of Philip Kiff
> Sent: Tuesday, April 3, 2018 10:12 AM
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] PDF tagged or not?
>
> I think there may be an internal flag in the PDF format that
> identifies a file as tagged or not. If software doesn't play nicely
> with the PDF format, it may simply omit setting that flag? Or maybe it
> is missing or has a malformed root tag in the tag tree?
>
> Regardless of the cause, if I recall correctly, to fix this, you
> should be able to just right-click the error in Acrobat DC and select "fix"?
>
> Phil.
>
>
> On 2018-04-03 11:05 AM, L Snider wrote:
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I have run into a PDF that has tags (done in Word and then added
> > pages in InDesign or similar) in the Tag Window but the Checker says
> > it isn't tagged and the Properties box says there are no tags.
> >
> > I came across this once way, way back and it could have been that
> > someone inadvertently did temporary tags through the set up
> > assistant and this caused the weirdness.
> >
> > I don't think this is the case here, but it could be. I haven't seen
> > this for a long time, so I wondered what can cause a tagged PDF to
> > be seen as not tagged? Just wondering if there are more reasons now
> > than there were years ago,
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Lisa
> > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > >
> > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >
From: chagnon@pubcom.com
Date: Tue, Apr 03 2018 9:08PM
Subject: Re: PDF tagged or not?
← Previous message | Next message →
> On 2018-04-03 11:05 AM, L Snider wrote:
> > I have run into a PDF that has tags (done in Word and then added
> > pages in InDesign or similar) in the Tag Window but the Checker says
> > it isn't tagged and the Properties box says there are no tags.
Wait, wait...
What's the workflow here?
Trying to interpret what you wrote, is it this?
1) Make the Word document.
2) Export it as a tagged PDF.
3) Place the tagged PDF into InDesign and add more pages to the InDesign document.
4) Export the whole enchilada from InDesign to a new tagged PDF.
At this time, when a PDF is placed into an InDesign layout (a.k.a. a nested PDF) and re-exported as a PDF, the nested PDF comes out as a graphic in the final PDF and is not accessible, other than treating it like a graphic and putting Alt-text on it.
At this time, this is not a valid workflow.
You can, however, import any Word document (accessible or not) into InDesign, lay out the document, and export it as a fully accessible PDF, which actually is the most common workflow for InDesign.
Question: why are you making a PDF from Word in the first place? If the content is going to be placed into InDesign, why not place/import the actual Word file?
â â â
Bevi Chagnon, founder/CEO | = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
â â â
PubCom: Technologists for Accessible Design + Publishing
consulting ' training ' development ' design ' sec. 508 services
Upcoming classes at www.PubCom.com/classes
â â â
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Josh Schroder
Sent: Tuesday, April 3, 2018 12:03 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] PDF tagged or not?
Hi Lisa,
That is odd, indeed. I haven't seen that one before.
Have you tested it with a screen reader to see what happens?
Josh
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of L Snider
Sent: Tuesday, April 3, 2018 10:36 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] PDF tagged or not?
Hi Josh,
Yep, the document is tagged in that menu. That is tied I think to the properties setting, which is also a Yes for tags. It is just the checker that is off.
Odd!
Cheers
Lisa
On Tue, Apr 3, 2018 at 10:24 AM, Josh Schroder < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> wrote:
> In Acrobat, you should be able to right click on any item in the tags
> tree, and you will see a menu item labeled "Document is Tagged PDF."
>
> You can see a screen capture of this setting here:
> https://forums.adobe.com/thread/612353
>
> This setting sets the internal flag that the document is tagged,
> regardless of whether or not it is. The flag should get set when the
> tags are added by Word or whatever authoring software, but there are
> some cases where the flag won't match up with the actual tags that are present.
>
> Josh Schroder
> Web Administrator III
> Office of Strategic Communication
> Texas Department of Licensing and Regulation
> (512) 936-8937
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
> Behalf Of Philip Kiff
> Sent: Tuesday, April 3, 2018 10:12 AM
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] PDF tagged or not?
>
> I think there may be an internal flag in the PDF format that
> identifies a file as tagged or not. If software doesn't play nicely
> with the PDF format, it may simply omit setting that flag? Or maybe it
> is missing or has a malformed root tag in the tag tree?
>
> Regardless of the cause, if I recall correctly, to fix this, you
> should be able to just right-click the error in Acrobat DC and select "fix"?
>
> Phil.
>
>
> On 2018-04-03 11:05 AM, L Snider wrote:
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I have run into a PDF that has tags (done in Word and then added
> > pages in InDesign or similar) in the Tag Window but the Checker says
> > it isn't tagged and the Properties box says there are no tags.
> >
> > I came across this once way, way back and it could have been that
> > someone inadvertently did temporary tags through the set up
> > assistant and this caused the weirdness.
> >
> > I don't think this is the case here, but it could be. I haven't seen
> > this for a long time, so I wondered what can cause a tagged PDF to
> > be seen as not tagged? Just wondering if there are more reasons now
> > than there were years ago,
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Lisa
> > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > >
> > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >
From: L Snider
Date: Thu, Apr 05 2018 1:48PM
Subject: Re: PDF tagged or not?
← Previous message | No next message
Hi Bevi and Josh,
Josh, the tags were okay for a multiple of screen readers, which is good!
Bevi, the Word was converted to PDF and the InDesign was converted to PDF
and then the two were put together (and I don't know which one was put into
which). I don't know which one was tagged, one of them must have been
tagged for the tags to exist (from what I know tagging wasn't done after in
Pro).
Yes, I have played with the Word>InDesign myself and it seems to be okay.
The workflow you mentioned was scary!
This isn't my workflow, but I have seen this before a few times, but not
the weird tags issue...
Any ideas? It was odd...
Cheers
Lisa
On Tue, Apr 3, 2018 at 10:08 PM, < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > On 2018-04-03 11:05 AM, L Snider wrote:
> > > I have run into a PDF that has tags (done in Word and then added
> > > pages in InDesign or similar) in the Tag Window but the Checker says
> > > it isn't tagged and the Properties box says there are no tags.
>
> Wait, wait...
> What's the workflow here?
> Trying to interpret what you wrote, is it this?
>
> 1) Make the Word document.
> 2) Export it as a tagged PDF.
> 3) Place the tagged PDF into InDesign and add more pages to the InDesign
> document.
> 4) Export the whole enchilada from InDesign to a new tagged PDF.
>
> At this time, when a PDF is placed into an InDesign layout (a.k.a. a
> nested PDF) and re-exported as a PDF, the nested PDF comes out as a graphic
> in the final PDF and is not accessible, other than treating it like a
> graphic and putting Alt-text on it.
>
> At this time, this is not a valid workflow.
>
> You can, however, import any Word document (accessible or not) into
> InDesign, lay out the document, and export it as a fully accessible PDF,
> which actually is the most common workflow for InDesign.
>
> Question: why are you making a PDF from Word in the first place? If the
> content is going to be placed into InDesign, why not place/import the
> actual Word file?
>
>
> â â â
> Bevi Chagnon, founder/CEO | = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> â â â
> PubCom: Technologists for Accessible Design + Publishing
> consulting ' training ' development ' design ' sec. 508 services
> Upcoming classes at www.PubCom.com/classes
> â â â
>
>