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Number of posts in this thread: 8 (In chronological order)

From: Katie Haritos-Shea
Date: Tue, Oct 09 2018 5:04PM
Subject: Testing with JAWS/NVDA on a virtual Windows 8/10 machine (Parrallels) running on a MAC
No previous message | Next message →

Hello All,

Does anyone have experience doing this?

Testing with JAWS/NVDA installed on a virtual Windows 8/10 machine
(Parallels) running on a MACBook Air?

In the past, in other virtual environments, this has not worked well for
me, or at all, even in a Windows virtual running inside a later version of
Windows, let alone inside a MAC.

I know there is the situations where JAWS is installed on the environment
with special scripts. But this is not a special set up.

An organization I am aware of is a MAC-only shop, and they *think* this
will work. It will be tested to see if it does, but I'd love some feedback
from anyone who has done this before ....

(My brain is going "but the drivers....", and "is it going to access the
Windows AAPI?")

Thanks!!

From: Aditya
Date: Tue, Oct 09 2018 5:41PM
Subject: Re: Testing with JAWS/NVDA on a virtual Windows 8/10 machine (Parrallels) running on a MAC
← Previous message | Next message →

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 9, 2018, at 6:04 PM, Katie Haritos-Shea < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> Hello All,
>
> Does anyone have experience doing this?
>
> Testing with JAWS/NVDA installed on a virtual Windows 8/10 machine
> (Parallels) running on a MACBook Air?
>
> In the past, in other virtual environments, this has not worked well for
> me, or at all, even in a Windows virtual running inside a later version of
> Windows, let alone inside a MAC.
>
> I know there is the situations where JAWS is installed on the environment
> with special scripts. But this is not a special set up.
>
> An organization I am aware of is a MAC-only shop, and they *think* this
> will work. It will be tested to see if it does, but I'd love some feedback
> from anyone who has done this before ....
>
> (My brain is going "but the drivers....", and "is it going to access the
> Windows AAPI?")
>
> Thanks!!
> > > >

From: Lucy Greco
Date: Tue, Oct 09 2018 5:48PM
Subject: Re: Testing with JAWS/NVDA on a virtual Windows 8/10 machine (Parrallels) running on a MAC
← Previous message | Next message →

i have done this and for some testing it works ok but its a offly slow
wait to get work done so i would say save that windows key and install it
on the bootcamp partishion insted
Lucia Greco
Web Accessibility Evangelist
IST - Architecture, Platforms, and Integration
University of California, Berkeley
(510) 289-6008 skype: lucia1-greco
http://webaccess.berkeley.edu
Follow me on twitter @accessaces



On Tue, Oct 9, 2018 at 4:42 PM Aditya via WebAIM-Forum <
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Oct 9, 2018, at 6:04 PM, Katie Haritos-Shea < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> wrote:
> >
> > Hello All,
> >
> > Does anyone have experience doing this?
> >
> > Testing with JAWS/NVDA installed on a virtual Windows 8/10 machine
> > (Parallels) running on a MACBook Air?
> >
> > In the past, in other virtual environments, this has not worked well for
> > me, or at all, even in a Windows virtual running inside a later version
> of
> > Windows, let alone inside a MAC.
> >
> > I know there is the situations where JAWS is installed on the environment
> > with special scripts. But this is not a special set up.
> >
> > An organization I am aware of is a MAC-only shop, and they *think* this
> > will work. It will be tested to see if it does, but I'd love some
> feedback
> > from anyone who has done this before ....
> >
> > (My brain is going "but the drivers....", and "is it going to access the
> > Windows AAPI?")
> >
> > Thanks!!
> > > > > > > > > > > > >

From: Len Burns
Date: Tue, Oct 09 2018 7:01PM
Subject: Re: Testing with JAWS/NVDA on a virtual Windows 8/10 machine (Parrallels) running on a MAC
← Previous message | Next message →

Iwould not do it on an Air, but I do something similar under Fusion on a
2015 MacBook Pro with 16 gb and the fastest available processor that was
available at that time. I set up Windows 10 with 8 gb of ram. The
performance is reasonable but not what I would describe as fast. As always
where a Mac is mixed with Windows and a screen reader you must make peace
with the keyboarding needs of the screen reader.

Regards,
-Len



-Len

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum <> On Behalf Of Katie Haritos-Shea
Sent: Tuesday, October 9, 2018 4:04 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: [WebAIM] Testing with JAWS/NVDA on a virtual Windows 8/10 machine
(Parrallels) running on a MAC

Hello All,

Does anyone have experience doing this?

Testing with JAWS/NVDA installed on a virtual Windows 8/10 machine
(Parallels) running on a MACBook Air?

In the past, in other virtual environments, this has not worked well for
me, or at all, even in a Windows virtual running inside a later version of
Windows, let alone inside a MAC.

I know there is the situations where JAWS is installed on the environment
with special scripts. But this is not a special set up.

An organization I am aware of is a MAC-only shop, and they *think* this
will work. It will be tested to see if it does, but I'd love some feedback
from anyone who has done this before ....

(My brain is going "but the drivers....", and "is it going to access the
Windows AAPI?")

Thanks!!

From: Katie Haritos-Shea
Date: Tue, Oct 09 2018 7:13PM
Subject: Re: Testing with JAWS/NVDA on a virtual Windows 8/10 machine (Parrallels) running on a MAC
← Previous message | Next message →

Len,

The keyboard difference does concern me. And I am thinking an attached
windows keyboard is still going to capture the keystrokes as-a-mac /
incorrectly / instead-of-as-windows.... to match windows testing...

On Tue, Oct 9, 2018, 9:01 PM Len Burns via WebAIM-Forum <
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> Iwould not do it on an Air, but I do something similar under Fusion on a
> 2015 MacBook Pro with 16 gb and the fastest available processor that was
> available at that time. I set up Windows 10 with 8 gb of ram. The
> performance is reasonable but not what I would describe as fast. As always
> where a Mac is mixed with Windows and a screen reader you must make peace
> with the keyboarding needs of the screen reader.
>
> Regards,
> -Len
>
>
>
> -Len
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum <> On Behalf Of Katie Haritos-Shea
> Sent: Tuesday, October 9, 2018 4:04 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: [WebAIM] Testing with JAWS/NVDA on a virtual Windows 8/10 machine
> (Parrallels) running on a MAC
>
> Hello All,
>
> Does anyone have experience doing this?
>
> Testing with JAWS/NVDA installed on a virtual Windows 8/10 machine
> (Parallels) running on a MACBook Air?
>
> In the past, in other virtual environments, this has not worked well for
> me, or at all, even in a Windows virtual running inside a later version of
> Windows, let alone inside a MAC.
>
> I know there is the situations where JAWS is installed on the environment
> with special scripts. But this is not a special set up.
>
> An organization I am aware of is a MAC-only shop, and they *think* this
> will work. It will be tested to see if it does, but I'd love some feedback
> from anyone who has done this before ....
>
> (My brain is going "but the drivers....", and "is it going to access the
> Windows AAPI?")
>
> Thanks!!
> > > > >
> > > > >

From: JP Jamous
Date: Wed, Oct 10 2018 5:39AM
Subject: Re: Testing with JAWS/NVDA on a virtual Windows 8/10 machine (Parallel's) running on a MAC
← Previous message | Next message →

I have done it on a Mac Book Pro. I wrote about this in the past on this
list. What you want to do is the following.

1. In Parallel, select the desired VM and go to properties. You can there
configure the keyboard shortcut keys as some are already turned on and would
conflict with JAWS shortcut keys or Windows shortcut keys.
2. Boot the VM in Parallel and while it is booting, unload Voiceover from
memory.
3. Once inside the VM, it should recognize your external keyboard and you
can use the number pad keys as if you are behind a Windows machine.


As with every VM, you have to be careful with JAWS since it relies heavily
on video drivers. Even in Windows, I have noticed that Hyper-v does not
provide JAWS with proper video drivers. So using the JAWS cursor does not
always read the screen. It just states "Blank". That does not happen with
VMWare because it provides a video card to fool Windows and JAWS believes
that bluff.

With NVDA, you should be just fine as it is not reliant on video drivers
like JAWS. Just remember that configuring those shortcut keys in the
properties of the VM are only VM dependent. They are not global changes in
Parallel.

BTW, I mentioned an external keyboard, because I personally find it much
easier for me to use. You can still use the Mac keyboard, but it would be
way easier to have the full keyboard with the numpad keys available.



--------------------
JP Jamous
Senior Digital Accessibility Engineer
E-Mail Me |Join My LinkedIn Network
--------------------


-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Katie
Haritos-Shea
Sent: Tuesday, October 9, 2018 6:04 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: [WebAIM] Testing with JAWS/NVDA on a virtual Windows 8/10 machine
(Parrallels) running on a MAC

Hello All,

Does anyone have experience doing this?

Testing with JAWS/NVDA installed on a virtual Windows 8/10 machine
(Parallels) running on a MACBook Air?

In the past, in other virtual environments, this has not worked well for me,
or at all, even in a Windows virtual running inside a later version of
Windows, let alone inside a MAC.

I know there is the situations where JAWS is installed on the environment
with special scripts. But this is not a special set up.

An organization I am aware of is a MAC-only shop, and they *think* this will
work. It will be tested to see if it does, but I'd love some feedback from
anyone who has done this before ....

(My brain is going "but the drivers....", and "is it going to access the
Windows AAPI?")

Thanks!!
http://webaim.org/discussion/archives

From: Jonathan Cohn
Date: Wed, Oct 10 2018 8:16AM
Subject: Re: Testing with JAWS/NVDA on a virtual Windows 8/10 machine (Parrallels) running on a MAC
← Previous message | Next message →

When using VM-Fusion, there is not really much difference in keys.

1. Caps lock does not get truly passed through to Windows.
Mac keyboards have an additional key in the top row of the num pad.
The Windows/Command and the Option/Alt keys are toggled in position between Windows keyboards and Mac keyboards.

Of these issues the only one that really gets in the way is the caps lock, and there are some hacks involving unmapping caps lock in system preferences and then remapping it with an alternative mapping like F19 and then telling Windows that F19 is the Caps lock key. Note, I am running an older vm-ware Fusion, so there is a chance they have actually fixed the caps lock not being passed to Windows but being handled by the MacOS.

However, I expect that if you try to get any support from the Vendor and they realize you are using virtual drivers rather than real drivers that they will complain a bit. Performance issues have already been discussed on the list.

I do however do testing using vmWare and both Windows 7 and Windows 10 on a daily basis.

Jonathan cohn

> On Oct 9, 2018, at 9:13 PM, Katie Haritos-Shea < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> Len,
>
> The keyboard difference does concern me. And I am thinking an attached
> windows keyboard is still going to capture the keystrokes as-a-mac /
> incorrectly / instead-of-as-windows.... to match windows testing...
>
> On Tue, Oct 9, 2018, 9:01 PM Len Burns via WebAIM-Forum <
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
>> Iwould not do it on an Air, but I do something similar under Fusion on a
>> 2015 MacBook Pro with 16 gb and the fastest available processor that was
>> available at that time. I set up Windows 10 with 8 gb of ram. The
>> performance is reasonable but not what I would describe as fast. As always
>> where a Mac is mixed with Windows and a screen reader you must make peace
>> with the keyboarding needs of the screen reader.
>>
>> Regards,
>> -Len
>>
>>
>>
>> -Len
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: WebAIM-Forum <> On Behalf Of Katie Haritos-Shea
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 9, 2018 4:04 PM
>> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>> Subject: [WebAIM] Testing with JAWS/NVDA on a virtual Windows 8/10 machine
>> (Parrallels) running on a MAC
>>
>> Hello All,
>>
>> Does anyone have experience doing this?
>>
>> Testing with JAWS/NVDA installed on a virtual Windows 8/10 machine
>> (Parallels) running on a MACBook Air?
>>
>> In the past, in other virtual environments, this has not worked well for
>> me, or at all, even in a Windows virtual running inside a later version of
>> Windows, let alone inside a MAC.
>>
>> I know there is the situations where JAWS is installed on the environment
>> with special scripts. But this is not a special set up.
>>
>> An organization I am aware of is a MAC-only shop, and they *think* this
>> will work. It will be tested to see if it does, but I'd love some feedback
>> from anyone who has done this before ....
>>
>> (My brain is going "but the drivers....", and "is it going to access the
>> Windows AAPI?")
>>
>> Thanks!!
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>
> > > >

From: Katie Haritos-Shea
Date: Wed, Oct 10 2018 9:22AM
Subject: Re: Testing with JAWS/NVDA on a virtual Windows 8/10 machine (Parrallels) running on a MAC
← Previous message | No next message

Jonathan,

Thanks for these details.

This VM is a newer AWS (Amazon Web Services) product that uses Parallels,
and the keyboard remapping have not been fixed...for performing Windows
testing on a MAC.

On Wed, Oct 10, 2018, 10:16 AM Jonathan Cohn < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> When using VM-Fusion, there is not really much difference in keys.
>
> 1. Caps lock does not get truly passed through to Windows.
> Mac keyboards have an additional key in the top row of the num pad.
> The Windows/Command and the Option/Alt keys are toggled in position
> between Windows keyboards and Mac keyboards.
>
> Of these issues the only one that really gets in the way is the caps lock,
> and there are some hacks involving unmapping caps lock in system
> preferences and then remapping it with an alternative mapping like F19 and
> then telling Windows that F19 is the Caps lock key. Note, I am running an
> older vm-ware Fusion, so there is a chance they have actually fixed the
> caps lock not being passed to Windows but being handled by the MacOS.
>
> However, I expect that if you try to get any support from the Vendor and
> they realize you are using virtual drivers rather than real drivers that
> they will complain a bit. Performance issues have already been discussed on
> the list.
>
> I do however do testing using vmWare and both Windows 7 and Windows 10 on
> a daily basis.
>
> Jonathan cohn
>
> > On Oct 9, 2018, at 9:13 PM, Katie Haritos-Shea < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> wrote:
> >
> > Len,
> >
> > The keyboard difference does concern me. And I am thinking an attached
> > windows keyboard is still going to capture the keystrokes as-a-mac /
> > incorrectly / instead-of-as-windows.... to match windows testing...
> >
> > On Tue, Oct 9, 2018, 9:01 PM Len Burns via WebAIM-Forum <
> > = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> >
> >> Iwould not do it on an Air, but I do something similar under Fusion on a
> >> 2015 MacBook Pro with 16 gb and the fastest available processor that was
> >> available at that time. I set up Windows 10 with 8 gb of ram. The
> >> performance is reasonable but not what I would describe as fast. As
> always
> >> where a Mac is mixed with Windows and a screen reader you must make
> peace
> >> with the keyboarding needs of the screen reader.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> -Len
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -Len
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: WebAIM-Forum <> On Behalf Of Katie Haritos-Shea
> >> Sent: Tuesday, October 9, 2018 4:04 PM
> >> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> >> Subject: [WebAIM] Testing with JAWS/NVDA on a virtual Windows 8/10
> machine
> >> (Parrallels) running on a MAC
> >>
> >> Hello All,
> >>
> >> Does anyone have experience doing this?
> >>
> >> Testing with JAWS/NVDA installed on a virtual Windows 8/10 machine
> >> (Parallels) running on a MACBook Air?
> >>
> >> In the past, in other virtual environments, this has not worked well for
> >> me, or at all, even in a Windows virtual running inside a later version
> of
> >> Windows, let alone inside a MAC.
> >>
> >> I know there is the situations where JAWS is installed on the
> environment
> >> with special scripts. But this is not a special set up.
> >>
> >> An organization I am aware of is a MAC-only shop, and they *think* this
> >> will work. It will be tested to see if it does, but I'd love some
> feedback
> >> from anyone who has done this before ....
> >>
> >> (My brain is going "but the drivers....", and "is it going to access the
> >> Windows AAPI?")
> >>
> >> Thanks!!
> >> > >> > >> > >> > >>
> >> > >> > >> > >> > >>
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > >