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Re: Browser version advice in accessibility statement

for

From: Aaron Leventhal
Date: Nov 4, 2011 2:42PM

I agree Randy, although at least we can start to proceed conservatively for
most content, using the fallbacks. And with the friendly message in place,
we can start to be aggressive with ARIA for the high tech crowd. We'll find
out what's appropriate for the middle ground as we go -- and it will change
(although not as fast as we'd like!)

Aaron

On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 4:27 PM, Randy Pope < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:

> HI Aaron,
>
> I'm in agreement with your thoughts. For many people with disabilities,
> updating or updating their assistive equipment and software pose a
> financial hardship. But again,,,it's very difficult to please everyone.
>
> With Warm Regards,
> Randy Pope
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of Aaron Leventhal
> Sent: Friday, November 04, 2011 3:02 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Browser version advice in accessibility statement
>
> Hi Christophe, I agree that every effort should be made to support older
> versions of JAWS and IE, and screen readers w/o ARIA support (like
> Windoew-Eyes). However, in dynamic content it's not always feasible. In
> many
> cases, depending on the audience and type of content, it simply makes sense
> to use ARIA.
>
> To make things better for users of JAWS 7 or IE7, etc., I advocate a few
> things:
> - Use "safe" ARIA techniques as a progressive enhancement when feasible
> - When "full" ARIA support is necessary, inform users with older technology
> of the need to upgrade and what their options are -- via the fancy
> automatic
> approach if we can get that to work well.
>
> As far as WCAG 2 compliance in that case, a strict reading of accessibility
> supported indicates we just need a free alternative -- such as Firefox +
> NVDA. Unfortunately as much as we'd all like to, we can't support five year
> old screen reading solutions in modern web content. We need to start
> educating users of the need to refresh their technology.
>
> Aaron
>
> On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 2:04 PM, Christophe Strobbe <
> <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>
> > Hi Aaron,
> >
> > At 16:54 4-11-2011, Aaron Leventhal wrote:
> >
> >> (...)
> >>
> >>
> >> Target audience:
> >> 1. If targeting the broad public (e.g. a government website), it
> >> seems necessary to stay on the safe side.
> >> 2. If targeting advanced technology users (e.g. a high tech company),
> >> it seems reasonable to use ARIA a lot more, and to require a more
> >> advanced browser - screen reader combo for content outside of the
> >> basics (documentation, support, etc.)
> >>
> >> Safe -- content for the broader public, or is primarily static HTML:
> >> . IE7+ with JAWS 7+, NVDA 2011.1+ or Window-Eyes 5.5+, Hal
> >> (version?), System Access (version?), etc.
> >> . Firefox 3.6 + with JAWS 7+, NVDA 2011.1+, Window-Eyes 5.5+ . Safari
> >> 4+ with VoiceOver on Snow Leopard or later . Mobile Safari and
> >> VoiceOver on iOS 4 or later
> >>
> >
> > This list reminds me of a similar list I wrote last year (in
> > deliverable
> > D3.1.2 for the AEGIS project; PDF at <http://tinyurl.com/6jjw8pz>;):
> >
> > * Internet Explorer 7 with JAWS 9 on Windows XP with Service Pack 3
> > (older versions of Internet Explorer and JAWS have no support for
> > WAI-ARIA),
> > * Firefox 3.0 with JAWS 9 on Windows XP with Service Pack 3 (Firefox 2
> > also supported MSAA and early drafts of WAI-ARIA),
> > * Firefox 3.0 with Window-Eyes 5.5 on Windows XP with Service Pack 3,
> > * Internet Explorer 7 with MAGic 11 on Windows XP with Service Pack 3,
> > * Internet Explorer 7 with ZoomText 9 on Windows XP with Service Pack
> > 3,
> > * Safari 3 on Mac OS X 10.5 with VoiceOver,
> > * Firefox 3.0 with Orca on Ubuntu 8.04 LTS ("Hardy Heron"),
> > * Firefox 3.0 with GNOME's built-in magnifiers on Ubuntu 8.04 LTS
> > ("Hardy Heron").
> >
> > This list was intended for creating accessibility support
> > documentation ("accessibility support" as defined by WCAG 2.0), hence
> > JAWS 9 instead of JAWS 7. (JAWS 7 is still in use, even in countries
> > with refund schemes for assistive technologies, e.g. Belgium.)
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Christophe
> >
> >
> > Full -- content for a high tech audience or must be dynamic by its
> nature:
> >> . IE8+ with JAWS 10+ (unfortunately there is no live region support
> >> in
> >> NVDA+IE)
> >> . Firefox 3.6+ with JAWS 10+ or NVDA 2011.1+ . Safari 5+ with
> >> VoiceOver on Lion or later . Mobile browsers: to be determined
> >>
> >> (...)
> >>
> >> Thoughts?
> >>
> >> Aaron
> >>
> >> On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 10:33 AM, Kevin White < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Hi All,
> >> >
> >> > I have a client who is doing some excellent work on creating an
> >> inclusive
> >> > and engaging website. In order to do so they are drawing on the
> >> > features provided in WAI-ARIA. This leads to some difficulties
> >> > regarding browser
> >> and
> >> > screen reader compatibility and we discussed how to address this.
> >> > My personal opinion is to use part of the accessibility statement
> >> > to
> >> highlight
> >> > the efforts but point out the need for users to upgrade but I was
> >> curious
> >> > to understand how people view this?
> >> >
> >> > My opinion is based on the idea that ARIA provides the opportunity
> >> > to
> >> help
> >> > users of assistive technologies but in order to do that there is a
> >> > need
> >> to
> >> > use a modern browser. User may not know this and by providing
> >> information
> >> > around this there is an opportunity to provide wider help.
> >> >
> >> > I would be interested to hear any other views on this,
> >> >
> >> > Thanks
> >> >
> >> > Kevin
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Christophe Strobbe
> > K.U.Leuven - Dept. of Electrical Engineering - SCD Research Group on
> > Document Architectures Kasteelpark Arenberg 10 bus 2442
> > B-3001 Leuven-Heverlee
> > BELGIUM
> > tel: +32 16 32 85 51
> > http://www.docarch.be/
> > Twitter: @RabelaisA11y
> > ---
> > Open source for accessibility: results from the AEGIS project
> > www.aegis-project.eu
> > ---
> > Please don't invite me to Facebook, Quechup or other "social networks".
> > You may have agreed to their "privacy policy", but I haven't.
> >
> >
> >