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Re: underline on links, from the blind's perspective

for

From: Stella Mudd
Date: May 24, 2012 2:33PM


Interesting read about links underlined and the problems caused with
dyslexic users:

http://www.distilled.net/blog/distilled/usability-versus-dyslexia/

On Thursday, May 24, 2012, Robyn Hunt wrote:

> Hi,
> I agree with Oscar and Sarah. In our work testing with people with
> learning difficulties we have found that blue underlined links are
> important accessibility features for a group of people who are often
> forgotten by web developers and communicators.
> Cheers
> Robyn
>
> Read my blog at www.lowvisionary.com
> AccEase, *All the information for all the people all the time
> * www.accease.com
> Twitter @AccEase
> i* <EMAIL REMOVED>
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>
>
> *At 06:00 a.m. 25/05/2012, you wrote:
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. underline on links, from the blind's perspective
> (Julius Charles Serrano)
> 2. Re: underline on links, from the blind's perspective (Jared Smith)
> 3. Re: underline on links, from the blind's perspective
> (Hoger, Jodie)
> 4. Re: underline on links, from the blind's perspective (Stella Mudd)
> 5. Re: underline on links, from the blind's perspective
> (Bevi Chagnon)
> 6. Re: underline on links, from the blind's perspective
> (Tim Harshbarger)
> 7. Re: underline on links, from the blind's perspective
> (John E Brandt)
> 8. Re: underline on links, from the blind's perspective
> (Bourne, Sarah (ITD))
> 9. Re: underline on links, from the blind's perspective
> (Oscar DeLong)
>
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> From: Julius Charles Serrano < <EMAIL REMOVED> <javascript:_e({},
> 'cvml', ' <EMAIL REMOVED> ');>>
> Precedence: list
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> To: <EMAIL REMOVED> <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
> ' <EMAIL REMOVED> ');>
> Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 14:40:23 +1200
> Reply-To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', ' <EMAIL REMOVED> ');>
> >
> Message-ID: < <EMAIL REMOVED> <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
> ' <EMAIL REMOVED> ');>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> Subject: [WebAIM] underline on links, from the blind's perspective
> Message: 1
>
> Hi everyone.
>
> Generally, it is a good accessibility practice to have an underline on
> each link.
>
> Regarding this matter, I wanna ask, particularly the accessibility
> advocates here who are blind, is there a way to verify (non-visually) that
> the links on a page are indeed underlined?
>
> I think for sighted accessibility advocates, this is not a problem. I just
> wanna know if there is a way for blind advocates to verify that links are
> underlined. Perhaps we can do this by looking at the code? Any ideas?
>
> I think being able to verify this is necessary because sometimes web
> developers tend to remove the underlines for whatever reason.
>
> Thanks everyone.
>
> Julius
>
>
>
> --
> Julius Charles Serrano
> Accessibility Specialist
> Catalyst IT Ltd
> http://www.catalyst.net.nz
> Mail: <EMAIL REMOVED> <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
> ' <EMAIL REMOVED> ');>
> Phone: +64 (4) 803-2436
>
>
>
>
> From: Jared Smith < <EMAIL REMOVED> <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
> ' <EMAIL REMOVED> ');>>
> Precedence: list
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', ' <EMAIL REMOVED> ');>
> >
> References: < <EMAIL REMOVED> <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
> ' <EMAIL REMOVED> ');>>
> In-Reply-To: < <EMAIL REMOVED> <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
> ' <EMAIL REMOVED> ');>>
> Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 21:23:21 -0600
> Reply-To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', ' <EMAIL REMOVED> ');>
> >
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> CAMfKODDm+ <EMAIL REMOVED> <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
> ' <EMAIL REMOVED> ');>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] underline on links, from the blind's perspective
> Message: 2
>
> On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 8:40 PM, Julius Charles Serrano wrote:
> > is there a way to verify (non-visually)
> > that the links on a page are indeed underlined?
>
> You can't easily tell from the markup alone, unless you check the CSS
> to see if there's some style somewhere that might remove the
> underline. One easy way would be to use Firebug in Firefox to analyze
> the link and see if the computed text-decoration style is set to
> either underline or none.
>
> Jared
>
>
>
> From: "Hoger, Jodie" < <EMAIL REMOVED> <javascript:_e({},
> 'cvml', ' <EMAIL REMOVED> ');>>
> Precedence: list
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> To: "WebAIM Discussion List" < <EMAIL REMOVED> <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', ' <EMAIL REMOVED> ');>
> >
> References: < <EMAIL REMOVED> <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
> ' <EMAIL REMOVED> ');>>
> In-Reply-To: < <EMAIL REMOVED> <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
> ' <EMAIL REMOVED> ');>>
> Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 13:24:59 +1000
> Reply-To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', ' <EMAIL REMOVED> ');>
> >
> Message-ID:
> < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> ** ** charset="US-ASCII"
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] underline on links, from the blind's perspective
> Message: 3
>
> Hi there. I am new to the list and have been watching closely. I am not
> techy in the slightest - smile but am totally blind and use a screen
> reader (window eyes by gw micro) and am passionate about universal
> design. From my perspective, I usually tab from link to link or use the
> find feature for links. Either way, I do not get any feedback that a
> link is underlined and in fact, until this discussion, was not aware
> that links were. I would imagine for people with vision impairments,
> learning difficulties and anyone else I suppose that the common practice
> of an underline would assist in the identification of the link.
> For me though, it makes no difference.
> I hope this feedback is useful.
> Best wishes,
> Jo
>
> Jodie Hoger
> Teacher Consultant (vision), Equity Services TAFE NSW - Illawarra
> Institute, Building A, 60 Bienda St, Bomaderry, NSW, 2541
> VOIP 54865| P 02 4421 9865| M 0437 035 042| F 02 4421 9804| E
> <EMAIL REMOVED> <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
> ' <EMAIL REMOVED> ');>| www.illawarra.tafensw.edu.au
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: <EMAIL REMOVED> <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
> ' <EMAIL REMOVED> ');>
> [ mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
> ' <EMAIL REMOVED> ');>] On Behalf Of Julius
> Charles Serrano
> Sent: Thursday, 24 May 2012 12:40 PM
> To: <EMAIL REMOVED> <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
> ' <EMAIL REMOVED> ');>
> Subject: [WebAIM] underline on links, from the blind's perspective
>
> Hi everyone.
>
> Generally, it is a good accessibility practice to have an underline on
> each link.
>
> Regarding this matter, I wanna ask, particularly the accessibility
> advocates here who are blind, is there a way to verify (non-visually)
> that the links on a page are indeed underlined?
>
> I think for sighted accessibility advocates, this is not a problem. I
> just wanna know if there is a way for blind advocates to verify that
> links are underlined. Perhaps we can do this by looking at the code? Any
>
> ideas?
>
> I think being able to verify this is necessary because sometimes web
> developers tend to remove the underlines for whatever reason.
>
> Thanks everyone.
>
> Julius
>
>
>
> --
> Julius Charles Serrano
> Accessibility Specialist
> Catalyst IT Ltd
> http://www.catalyst.net.nz
> Mail: <EMAIL REMOVED> <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
> ' <EMAIL REMOVED> ');>
> Phone: +64 (4) 803-2436
>
> > > > 'cvml', ' <EMAIL REMOVED> ');>
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>
> From: Stella Mudd < <EMAIL REMOVED> <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
> ' <EMAIL REMOVED> ');>>
> Precedence: list
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', ' <EMAIL REMOVED> ');>
> >
> References: < <EMAIL REMOVED> <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
> ' <EMAIL REMOVED> ');>>
> In-Reply-To: < <EMAIL REMOVED> <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
> ' <EMAIL REMOVED> ');>>
> Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 21:08:59 -0700
> Reply-To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', ' <EMAIL REMOVED> ');>
> >
> Message-ID: <CAMVnZ8rnO> ZE-ONrUiA0d2vQsOjo18fQPMVOC0JAn2nvynw1+ <EMAIL REMOVED> <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
> ' <EMAIL REMOVED> ');>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] underline on links, from the blind's perspective
> Message: 4
>
> Julius,
>
> > Generally, it is a good accessibility practice to
> > have an underline on each link.
>
> I think you'll find arguments on both sides, but I have never felt an
> underline is necessary. Bottom line for me is whether a link can be
> discernible, which has never necessitated an underline. I would argue good
> usability no longer requires an underline.
>
> Arguments?
>
> - Stella
>
> On Wednesday, May 23, 2012, Julius Charles Serrano wrote:
>
> > Hi everyone.
> >
> > Generally, it is a good accessibility practice to have an underline on
> > each link.
> >
> > Regarding this matter, I wanna ask, particularly the accessibility
> > advocates here who are blind, is there a way to verify (non-visually)
> > that the links on a page are indeed underlined?
> >
> > I think for sighted accessibility advocates, this is not a problem. I
> > just wanna know if there is a way for blind advocates to verify that
> > links are underlined. Perhaps we can do this by looking at the code? Any
> > ideas?
> >
> > I think being able to verify this is necessary because sometimes web
> > developers tend to remove the underlines for whatever reason.
> >
> > Thanks everyone.
> >
> > Julius
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Julius Charles Serrano
> > Accessibility Specialist
> > Catalyst IT Ltd
> > http://www.catalyst.net.nz
> > Mail: <EMAIL REMOVED> <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
> ' <EMAIL REMOVED> ');> <javascript:;>
> > Phone: +64 (4) 803-2436
> >
> > > > > > > >
>
>
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> From: "Bevi Chagnon" < <EMAIL REMOVED> <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
> ' <EMAIL REMOVED> ');>>
> Precedence: list
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> To: "'WebAIM Discussion List'" < <EMAIL REMOVED> <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', ' <EMAIL REMOVED> ');>
> >
> References: < <EMAIL REMOVED> <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
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> ** **< <EMAIL REMOVED>
> >
> In-Reply-To:
> < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 04:28:56 -0400
> Reply-To: <EMAIL REMOVED> <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
> ' <EMAIL REMOVED> ');>,
> ** **WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', ' <EMAIL REMOVED> ');>
> >
> Message-ID: <009e01cd3987$4466fa20$cd34ee60$@pubcom.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> ** ** charset="us-ascii"
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] underline on links, from the blind's perspective
> Message: 5
>
> Julius wrote: "Generally, it is a good accessibility practice to have an
> underline on
> each link."
>
> Julius, underlined links are more of a "convention," which means most
> sighted users are expecting that links will be underlined so it's good
> practice to underline links if you want most users to quickly see and
> identify links.
>
> But as Jodie said below, underlining or any other visual formatting of
> links
> (like blue) is not made known to screen reader users. Their tools tell them
> that it's a link, not that it's underlined.
>
> The underlining, however, might be helpful to low-vision users of screen
> readers and other A.T. users, just as it would for full-vision users.
> -
> Bevi Chagnon | <EMAIL REMOVED> <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
> ' <EMAIL REMOVED> ');>
> PubCom - Trainers, consultants, designers, and developers
> Print, Web, Acrobat, XML, eBooks, and Federal Section 508
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: <EMAIL REMOVED> <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
> ' <EMAIL REMOVED> ');>
> [ mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
> ' <EMAIL REMOVED> ');>] On Behalf Of Hoger, Jodie
> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 11:25 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] underline on links, from the blind's perspective
>
> Hi there. I am new to the list and have been watching closely. I am not
> techy in the slightest - smile but am totally blind and use a screen reader
> (window eyes by gw micro) and am passionate about universal design. From my
> perspective, I usually tab from link to link or use the find feature for
> links. Either way, I do not get any feedback that a link is underlined and
> in fact, until this discussion, was not aware that links were. I would
> imagine for people with vision impairments, learning difficulties and
> anyone
> else I suppose that the common practice of an underline would assist in the
> identification of the link.
> For me though, it makes no difference.
> I hope this feedback is useful.
> Best wishes,
> Jo
>
> Jodie Hoger
> Teacher Consultant (vision), Equity Services TAFE NSW - Illawarra
> Institute,
> Building A, 60 Bienda St, Bomaderry, NSW, 2541 VOIP 54865| P 02 4421 9865|
> M
> 0437 035 042| F 02 4421 9804| E <EMAIL REMOVED> |
> www.illawarra.tafensw.edu.au
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> [ mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of Julius
> Charles Serrano
> Sent: Thursday, 24 May 2012 12:40 PM
> To: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> Subject: [WebAIM] underline on links, from the blind's perspective
>
> Hi everyone.
>
> Generally, it is a good accessibility practice to have an underline on
> each link.
>
> Regarding this matter, I > > > 'cvml', ' <EMAIL REMOVED> ');>
> ************************************************************ _
>
>