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Re: Making A Better CAPTCHA For the Visually Impaired And Making Captions More Available To The Hearing Impaired

for

From: Elle
Date: Apr 17, 2013 9:41PM

Samir:

I think it's great if you want to test your code with a screen reader.
There are free options available like VoiceOver that comes with every Mac
and NVDA <http://community.nvda-project.org/>; for Windows). However, I
would humbly suggest that testing with a screen reader as a developer is
really more for your own awareness. It will help you get familiar with how
screen readers interact with web pages. You actually have the best possible
scenario for getting screen reader testing results with Lucy's kind offer.
As a sighted user who works in the accessibility industry, I still would
never trust my own testing over someone who uses a screen reader for
everyday use. Because accessibility is part technical and part human
experience, I usually focus on the technical and try to learn from others'
interactions.

All the best, and congratulations again on your project idea! You've
restored my hope in a good reason to have CAPTCHA on a web site... maybe. :)


Cheers,
Elle

If you want to build a ship, don't drum up the people to gather wood,
divide the work, and give orders. Instead, teach them to yearn for the vast
and endless sea.
- Antoine De Saint-Exupéry, The Little Prince


On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 10:06 PM, Lucy Greco < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:

> Hello:
> I was in a hurry earlier and forgot to say I really do want this to work
> and I will be your tester. Just send me anything you have and I can tell
> you how it works I will even screen cast to show you how it works this is
> a very important and ambitious project I really want it to work Lucy
>
> Lucia Greco
> Web Access Analyst
> IST-Campus Technology Services
> University of California, Berkeley
> (510) 289-6008 skype: lucia1-greco
> http://webaccess.berkeley.edu
> Follow me on twitter @accessaces
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of samir menon
> Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2013 6:42 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Making A Better CAPTCHA For the Visually Impaired
> And Making Captions More Available To The Hearing Impaired
>
> Thanks so much for the feedback Elle!
> You're right in saying that there definitely a bunch of ways I can make
> the site more accesible. In some ways, it's a bit hypocritical of me to
> have a page with such poor accessibility when my project is, in itself,
> about making the web more accessible. I really like the accesible audio
> player example that you sent me, so I'll probably try to use that to
> ensure that everyone on every browser can hear the CAPTCHA.
>
> I'll work on those issues tonight and tomorrow evening, and in addition to
> what you mentioned, try actually using the page using a screenreader. I'll
> update everyone when I finish.
>
> Thanks,
> ~Samir
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 9:24 PM, Elle < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>
> > Samir:
> >
> > I believe I understand why Lucy's experiencing some problems accessing
> > your audio content. There are some technical accessibility issues with
> > your page that need to be addressed first before you will get much out
> > of user testing. After just a few minutes, here are some starting
> > points to fix the page, things that I would consider must-have support
> features:
> >
> >
> > - *Perceivable:* I recommend some more browser testing if you want
> this
> > to be a popular alternative to CAPTCHA solutions in use today. Using
> > Windows, Firefox 20, the audio player does not visually display
> > (screenshot
> > of page:http://i.imgur.com/Qef7IVL.png).
> >
> > - *Operable:* The audio player is not keyboard accessible using
> Chrome
> > 26, Firefox 20, or Internet Explorer 10. Some recommended reading on
> > keyboard accessibility, ARIA, and focus path (because I suspect
> > that will
> > be the next hurdle for you):
> > -- Terrill Thompson's accessible audio player (just tested it again,
> > still working for me!): http://www.terrillthompson.com/music/aap/
> > -- ARIA best practices (and focus path management):
> > http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-practices/
> >
> > - *Understandable:* The label for the text entry is missing a FOR
> > attribute that will tie it to the input field's ID attribute. These
> two
> > elements must be associated programmatically in order for all users
> to
> > understand their relationship. For example, instead
> > of <label>Caption:</label>, you should have <label
> > for="responsenew">Caption:</label> where "responsenew" is the ID
> > attribute
> > for the text input field.
> >
> > - *Robust:* I think it would be beneficial if you did consider
> offering
> > multiple ways that users could access the audio content. Your
> suggestion
> > about an MP3 may be the answer. Either way, please ensure that your
> > CAPTCHA
> > does not depend on a very specific combination of browsers,
> > technologies,
> > or assistive technology to support it.
> >
> >
> > Again, that wasn't a full review or anything, but I figured it would
> > help to provide you some initial technical feedback before you run
> > into any more problems.
> >
> >
> > All the best,
> > Elle
> >
> > If you want to build a ship, don't drum up the people to gather wood,
> > divide the work, and give orders. Instead, teach them to yearn for the
> > vast and endless sea.
> > - Antoine De Saint-Exupéry, The Little Prince
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 8:44 PM, Elle < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> >
> > > Samir:
> > >
> > > I just wanted to tell you, as someone who has been a rather
> > > outspoken critic of CAPTCHAs, that I find your project idea really
> > > creative and inspiring. Once the technical pieces are worked out, I
> > > look forward to seeing how it will both benefit the groups of users
> > > that you mentioned
> > and
> > > hopefully increase the overall usability of CAPTCHA for everyone.
> > > In short, what a cool idea!
> > >
> > > I'll do a little testing and provide some feedback shortly.
> > >
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Elle
> > >
> > > If you want to build a ship, don't drum up the people to gather
> > > wood, divide the work, and give orders. Instead, teach them to yearn
> > > for the
> > vast
> > > and endless sea.
> > > - Antoine De Saint-Exupéry, The Little Prince
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 8:37 PM, Lucy Greco < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hello:
> > >> I can't find a way to hear the audio I find a here link on the
> > >> page and edit field to put the answer in and a check answer button
> > >> and a give up button how do I play the audio Lucy
> > >>
> > >> Lucia Greco
> > >> Web Access Analyst
> > >> IST-Campus Technology Services
> > >> University of California, Berkeley
> > >> (510) 289-6008 skype: lucia1-greco
> > >> http://webaccess.berkeley.edu
> > >> Follow me on twitter @accessaces
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> > >> [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of samir
> > >> menon
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2013 5:21 PM
> > >> To: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> > >> Subject: [WebAIM] Making A Better CAPTCHA For the Visually Impaired
> > >> And Making Captions More Available To The Hearing Impaired
> > >>
> > >> Hi All,
> > >>
> > >> I'm Samir, a 10th grade web developer and I am working on a Google
> > Science
> > >> Fair Project to create a better CAPTCHA for the visually impaired.
> > >> As
> > you
> > >> may know, current audio CAPTCHAs are very difficult, take a long
> > >> time,
> > and
> > >> tend to discourage many visually impaired web users from
> > >> participating
> > in
> > >> online discussion. Not only is the solution I have developed an
> > >> easier audio CAPTCHA, but also uses the work of those who fill out
> > >> the CAPTCHAs to provide captions to videos online for the deaf. In
> > >> that way, my
> > project
> > >> helps make the web more accesible for both the visually impaired
> > >> and the hearing impaired.
> > >>
> > >> Essentially, I take videos online, split them into chunks, and take
> > >> the ones that the computer has trouble with and present them to
> > >> users as CAPTCHA puzzles. I compare their responses to the
> > >> responses of others to verify they are human. You can read the full
> > >> explanation and help me
> > test
> > >> the system
> > >> here<
> > >> http://t-oss.com/why_the_audio_recaptcha_is_terrible_and_how_it_can
> > >> _b
> > >> e_fixed.html<
> > http://t-oss.com/why_the_audio_recaptcha_is_terrible_and_how_it_can_be
> > _fixed.html
> > >
> > >> >
> > >> [1].
> > >>
> > >> You can help me by testing the solution I have, and giving me any
> > feedback
> > >> you have. You can test the solution by clicking the button at the
> > >> bottom of [1] or going here <http://t-oss.com/puzzle.php>; [2].
> > >>
> > >> Also, if you have any feedback, don't hesitate at all to tell me: I
> > >> appreciate any and all feedback!
> > >>
> > >> Thanks so much!
> > >> ~Samir Menon
> > >>
> > >> [1] -
> > >>
> > http://t-oss.com/why_the_audio_recaptcha_is_terrible_and_how_it_can_be
> > _fix
> > >> ed.html<
> > http://t-oss.com/why_the_audio_recaptcha_is_terrible_and_how_it_can_be
> > _fixed.html
> > >
> > >>
> > >> [2] - http://t-oss.com/puzzle.php
> > >> > > >> > > >> list messages to <EMAIL REMOVED>
> > >> > > >> > > >> list messages to <EMAIL REMOVED>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > > > > list messages to <EMAIL REMOVED>
> >
> > > messages to <EMAIL REMOVED>
> > > >