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Re: Alternate text for images having caption adjacent

for

From: Michael Moore
Date: May 29, 2014 2:45PM


Johathan wrote

For
example, a caption of me at a tweetup might state "Jon at the CSUN
tweetup". But the alt text might explain a lot more detail such as the
funny hat I'm wearing or the Got 508? T-shirt I'm wearing, etc.

My approach (right or wrong) has been to approach the caption and the alt
text as a pair. The caption provides information about the image that
everyone needs while the alternative text provides information that anyone
who cannot see the image needs. Thus to use a portrait image as part of a
bio as an example, I would argue that the caption is unnecessary but the
alternative text is important. alt="Mike wearing a propeller beanie" or
alt="Jon with a white cane"


On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 2:23 PM, Jonathan Avila < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
wrote:

> > I totally agree with you Jared in regard with verbos, but my concern is
> Consider If alt="" is used instead of "Image of or photo of Jared" in
> alternate text, screen reader will not announce that an image of Jared is
> available in the
>
> Yes, this does get tricky. It really depends on the situation. For
> example, a caption of me at a tweetup might state "Jon at the CSUN
> tweetup". But the alt text might explain a lot more detail such as the
> funny hat I'm wearing or the Got 508? T-shirt I'm wearing, etc. What the
> image is conveying may very widely. For example, if my profile picture
> shows me hiking as sighted person could infer I like or have been hiking
> and a simple caption of "Jon Avila" wouldn't tell the user is blind and
> visually impaired that information -- such information could be useful in
> networking, etc.
>
> Jonathan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of Rakesh P
> Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 1:57 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Alternate text for images having caption adjacent
>
> <Jared wrote:
> But, I think this requirement often results in less-than-optimal
> accessibility. Consider a photo of me in a web page with text immediately
> below it of "Jared Smith". Based on this definition, one would have to
> either provide alternative text that is redundant to the actual text, or
> do something like this:
>
> Jared Smith
>
> This is certainly not useful or efficient. The content of the image is
> that it's me, Jared Smith, so why require verbose or unnecessary text
> references to that content from the image itself? Consider the overhead of
> dozens of these types of alt attribute references (alt="Product image.
> Product title is below."???) for every product image on a shopping web
> site.>
>
> I totally agree with you Jared in regard with verbos, but my concern is
> Consider If alt="" is used instead of "Image of or photo of Jared" in
> alternate text, screen reader will not announce that an image of Jared is
> available in the web page. If I want to ask my sited friend to explain how
> Jared looks. Tall, fair, with blue eyes etc. alt="" will not allow me to
> do so.
> (I am a screen reader user just trying to put my perspective not to go
> into personal details though) Thanks & Regards Rakesh On 5/28/14, Whitney
> Quesenbery < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> > I'd like to push the discussion of captions v. alt text a little
> further.
> >
> > I work on a UX magazine, where we try to take accessibility seriously
> > and regularly publish articles on the topic. Many of our articles
> > include illustrations that are screenshots or images of other design
> > artifacts. All of our illustrations have captions, and a direct
> reference in the text.
> >
> > The work of making the captions and alt text work together is one of
> > our ongoing discussions. I'd love any input, beyond the usual rules
> > for alt text, as I'm working on a style guide for our authors and
> editors.
> >
> > 1. If the *content* of the screenshot is not very important, do not
> > transcribe the text. The alt text briefly adds any descriptive details
> > that help someone visualize the image and make sense of the example.
> >
> > If the *content* is important, use the alt text to identify the
> > content (say, repeat the title of the form or content being
> > illustrated). Include a box at the end of the article with the full
> > text. (And even here, transcribe only the part of the screen that is
> > important to illustrating the point.) Add a link in the caption (where
> > it's possible technically) that points to the long description in the
> box.
> >
> > 2. If the screenshot is compared to another, and well described in
> > caption or text, the alt text says whether it's the "before" or
> > "after" (or
> > good/bad) image, in case a reader wants to know which is which.
> >
> > If the comparison is sensory, echo words from the article to
> > characterize the visual impact. (For example: "Screen showing bland
> > clip art" and "Screen showing vibrant images")
> >
> >
> > 3. Avoid de-minimus descriptions like "photo" in favor of what it's a
> > photo of. We use a word to describe the image only if the visual style
> matters.
> > (For example "Hand-drawn sketch" or "Visual mock-up" or "Screenshot".)
> >
> > 4. Think about how the alt text and caption read together, trying to
> > make them work as a coherent information unit
> >
> > Don't hide any generally meaningful information in the alt text. Put
> > that in the caption, even if it makes a slightly longer caption.
> >
> > Our alt text is sometimes longer than usual suggestions when the extra
> > words are helpful in understanding the design
> >
> >
> > Whitney
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, May 27, 2014 at 3:33 PM, Jared Smith < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, May 27, 2014 at 1:09 PM, Jonathan Avila wrote:
> >>
> >> > Alt text may often be different from a caption.
> >>
> >> Indeed. And in this case, the image would need an alt attribute value
> >> in addition to the caption.
> >>
> >> > For example, a caption might be "Washington crossing the Delaware",
> >> > but
> >> the
> >> > alt text for the picture would in most situations need to describe
> >> > more than that to be a replacement of the image for someone who
> >> > could not see it.
> >>
> >> Yep, but if the full alternative *is* in context, adding
> >> alt="Painting. The description is in the text below." is silly and
> >> doesn't resemble alternative text at all, but it is what the WCAG
> >> definition and techniques suggest is necessary for conformance.
> >>
> >> Jared
> >> > >> > >> list messages to <EMAIL REMOVED>
> >>
> > > > > > list messages to <EMAIL REMOVED>
> >
> > > messages to <EMAIL REMOVED>
> > > >