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Re: Untagged PDF doc with table structure

for

From: Jon Metz
Date: Feb 20, 2015 7:32AM

Howdy,

Hopefully I can shed some light on this topic a bit more diplomatically.
InDesign has a much stronger engine for making accessible PDFs since
version 5.5, and use of the Structure pane became a deprecated method
within the workflow. The structure pane is still useful in XML workflows
(my knowledge only extends to automation tasks when using Excel or Catalog
data and a way to print). However, using the Structure pane now is a waste
of time.

Using the Articles panel is a necessary method of using the correct reading
order (nothing to do with the panel in Acrobat) and structure for the tags.
I think the comment "isn't very helpful" is perhaps not really the best way
to describe it. Like, you expect there to be some more stuff that you need
to do aside from selecting text boxes on the page and clicking a button,
but that's really all you can do. Problems arise when you need to include
content outside of the added text boxes, as they end up outside of the
final structure. This is probably what was meant when longer documents were
mentioned.

If you change your Paragraph Style names to be the Tag names (P, H1, H2,
BlockQuote, Code, etc) allowed by the ISO Standard, then they'll be
included as actual Tag names and no Role Mapping will be required when you
move to Acrobat Pro. Usually you can use Character Styles to dramatically
change the visual display of tag styles. InDesign CC does a wonderful job
tagging lists appropriately.

Avoiding the Structure pane now allows people to focus on using the actual
tools of InDesign. Like most accessibility (I think Whitney Q actually
brought this up on the list a long time ago), setting things up correctly
the first time will greatly reduce the amount of work needed to remediate
later. Any designer who argues that accessibility isn't their job can focus
instead on using the tools in InDesign that they should be using (A source
of pet peeves for any designer who receives another's files!).

Regarding the statement someone made about using the Structure pane to see
the structure of tags, my recommendation would be to use the Tag panel in
Acrobat Pro for that. As a technical aside, with the inclusion of using
PDF/UA as a technical requirement of revised 508 guidelines, there is going
to be a need to do some advanced tricks in Acrobat to achieve this. When
that happens, it's going to be important to focus on keeping up with the
current methodology for fixing PDFs, so people remediating aren't likely to
be confused even further. Just a suggestion really...

As far as "InDesign Magazine" goes, I only know of two magazines, which are
InDesign Secrets (http://indesignsecrets.com/issues) and Layers (
http://layersmagazine.com/).

There's also Adobe:
http://www.adobe.com/accessibility/products/indesign.html

And I can also help if you want to contact me directly. :smile:

Best,
Jonathan

On Fri, Feb 20, 2015 at 12:44 AM, Ryan E. Benson < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
wrote:

> This will be my final note on this thread, since I have gotten a number of
> personal notes regarding my comments. My point is simply this: while
> inDesign can make accessible PDFs, it is no where near being user friendly.
> Adding somebody's lack of knowledge of accessibility, just compounds the
> issue some magnitude I don't know how to compute. Also, adding to the pile
> that a fair number of graphic artists I have worked see accessibility "not
> their issue." I know that this is something different in itself.
>
> Bevi said:
> > Since version 5.5, there's been no need to use the structure pane for
> accessible PDFs from InDesign.
>
> then
>
> >The articles panel isn't very helpful in most documents, like long docs.
> >You have to watch your story threading, anchored objects and layers
> throughout to get the correct tag structure, but that's just InDesign 101
> that you should be doing anyway.
> >If you've used InDesign's tools correctly, the tag order will follow
> exactly what you've laid out.
>
> If I missed something, please let me know. There are two ways to effect the
> output, the structure pane and the articles pane. So post 5.5, the
> structure pane doesn't need to be used, but usually the articles pane isn't
> helpful? So what should be used to determine the output without making and
> double checking the PDF? While it has been over a year since I read stuff,
> most documentation I read basically said not to touch the structure pane,
> only the articles pane. I found one tutorial that had step-by-step
> instructions. Following these, I think I gave myself score in the 70s.
> Trying myself, the score was much worse. Scrapping the new method, and
> using the structure pane, it was in the low 90s - which is the norm for me,
> since there is always something needing a tweak in Acrobat.
>
> > Edition #46 February-March 2012 at www.InDesignMagazine.com
> I get a "buy this domain" type page for the linkk.
>
> --
> Ryan E. Benson
>
> On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 11:33 PM, Chagnon | PubCom < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> wrote:
>
> > No, not entirely.
> > The articles panel isn't very helpful in most documents, like long docs.
> > You have to watch your story threading, anchored objects and layers
> > throughout to get the correct tag structure, but that's just InDesign 101
> > that you should be doing anyway.
> > If you've used InDesign's tools correctly, the tag order will follow
> > exactly what you've laid out.
> > Using the structure pane is a royal pain, as in PITA. It drops XML tags
> > into the document which then get royally botched as normal copy/paste
> > editing actions are done during production. And what a slowdown on the
> > computer!
> >
> > IMHO, that's a pretty lousy way to use InDesign! For XML, yes, which is
> > what it was designed to do. But that overhead isn't needed for accessible
> > PDFs. I'd rather do other things with my time than wait from my 500-page
> > government document to refresh the structure pane!
> >
> > --Bevi Chagnon
> >
> >