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Re: Selects with drop downs

for

From: chagnon@pubcom.com
Date: Mar 14, 2018 9:13PM

<< all we can do is to diligently file bugs or promote bugs if already filed to keep the issues alive on the vendor's to-do list.>>

Definitely, do that.
But how about another tactic?

Sec. 508 requires the federal government buy accessible software and hardware. Enforce it, especially if you're a government entity or one that is covered by accessibility regulations, such as schools and colleges.

Tell the manufacturers why their products will no longer be purchased, that you'll consider them again in the future if they correct their shortcomings.

This strategy has worked in the past with other manufacturers in the industry.

—Bevi Chagnon

— — —
Bevi Chagnon, founder/CEO | <EMAIL REMOVED>
— — —
PubCom: Technologists for Accessible Design + Publishing
consulting ' training ' development ' design ' sec. 508 services
Upcoming classes at www.PubCom.com/classes
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-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2018 9:49 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Selects with drop downs

My rant is purely philosophical in nature.
IN reality the web content authors are responsible, and we do all the JavaScript workarounds and extra testing to make sure our web content is usable, but I think this is a fundamentally flawed paradigm and that user agents (browsers and assistive technology applications) need to do more.
Until they do, accessibility will justifiably be considered resource intensive and difficult to implement, but it doesn't have to be like that.

all we can do is to diligently file bugs or promote bugs if already filed to keep the issues alive on the vendor's to-do list.



On 3/14/18, Ryan E. Benson < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> > There are support and implementation differences between browsers
> (Firefox matches the string from the beginning, Chrome only matches
> for a substring,
> IE11 doesn't do anything at all).
>
> The app I am talking about works fine in IE 11. If we look past all
> the bonuses about HTML5, my interpretation of the render would look like:
>
> <label for="country">Select a country</label> <select name="country"
> id="">
> <option value=""><input type="text"></option>
> <option value="USA">USA</option>
> <option value="Canada">Canada</option>
> <option value="Mexico">Mexico</option> </select>
>
>
> --
> Ryan E. Benson
>
> On Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 3:23 PM, Birkir R. Gunnarsson <
> <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>
>> A lot of people don't know this, but HTML5 actually has simulated
>> combox code.
>> That is the list attribute combined with the <datalist> element.
>> <label for="search">Search</label>
>> <input id="search" type="text" list="suggestions"> <datalist
>> id="suggestions"> <option value="suggestion 1"> <option
>> value="suggestion 2"> ..
>> </datalist>
>>
>> The <datalist> elemet should hold all the possible options, they can
>> be loaded from a JSon file.
>> When user starts typing into the search input the browser
>> automatically displays matching suggestions from the datalist (it
>> shows the value of the matching option elements).
>> In Firefox at least you can use arrow keys to navigate into and
>> through the list, enter to select an option and close it, and escape
>> to dismiss it without selecting.
>> There are support and implementation differences between browsers
>> (Firefox matches the string from the beginning, Chrome only matches
>> for a substring, IE11 doesn't do anything at all).
>>
>> For instance, if you type "ppl" into the field and "apples" was one
>> of the options, Chrome would display it as a suggestion but Firefox
>> would not.
>>
>> If we can file bugs and get the browser vendors committed this is
>> close to being an accessible no-JavaScript-needed solution.
>> I think this and accessibility support of the <dialog> element are
>> the biggest advances that current HTML5 has to offer, the amount of
>> ARIA and JavaScript and focus management that is needed to get those
>> right is beyond most ordinary developers, and I don't blame them.
>> But if they could do it with HTML, it would be amazing.
>>
>> I don't know why this isn't gaining more traction, most web
>> developers I talk to have never heard of this, even if it is in the HTML5 spec.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 3/14/18, Steve Green < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>> > Hi Bryan,
>> >
>> > I will reply off-list. At this stage all I really want is a
>> > replacement
>> for
>> > a native combobox, so I have only been testing the Country combobox
>> > at http://whatsock.com/tsg/Coding%20Arena/ARIA%20Comboboxes/ARIA%
>> 20Comboboxes%20(Native%20Inputs,%20Multiselect%
>> 20Editable%20with%20Substring%20Match)/demo.htm.
>> > All the other whizzy features such as autocomplete can wait until
>> > we get
>> the
>> > basic widget working.
>> >
>> > Steve
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On
>> Behalf
>> > Of Bryan Garaventa
>> > Sent: 14 March 2018 18:09
>> > To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
>> > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Selects with drop downs
>> >
>> > "and the Whatsock designs don't work at all well in some cases. In
>> > one specific case, JAWS 2018 announces that the combobox has been
>> > set to a different value than has actually been selected."
>> >
>> > Hi,
>> > There are many possibilities which may be causing this confusion,
>> > not
>> just
>> > the programming of the widget. E.G The purpose you are trying to
>> > use the combobox for, support level differences between browsers or
>> > screen reader bugs, or configuration settings available within the
>> > combobox widget that you may not be aware of.
>> >
>> > So, when you get a chance, can you please reply with steps to
>> > reproduce, including the version of JAWS and which browser you are
>> > using plus the widget example you are testing? Also please explain
>> > the negative behavior that you are experiencing, which will give me
>> > a sense of where to home in specifically.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > Bryan
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Bryan Garaventa
>> > Accessibility Fellow
>> > Level Access, Inc.
>> > <EMAIL REMOVED>
>> > 415.624.2709 (o)
>> > www.LevelAccess.com
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf
>> > Of
>> Steve
>> > Green
>> > Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2018 7:31 AM
>> > To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
>> > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Selects with drop downs
>> >
>> > I have been testing those Whatsock comboboxes recently and I find
>> > that
>> they
>> > only work well under certain specific circumstances. There are many
>> > ways
>> in
>> > which a user can interact with even a simple combobox (I have
>> > tested ten ways but there are potentially more), and the Whatsock
>> > designs don't
>> work at
>> > all well in some cases. In one specific case, JAWS 2018 announces
>> > that
>> the
>> > combobox has been set to a different value than has actually been
>> selected.
>> >
>> > It's worth noting that even when the behaviour is acceptable, the
>> > user experience is substantially different from a native combobox.
>> > I find it disappointing and frustrating that the HTML5 and ARIA
>> > specifications have not been written such that it is possible to
>> > closely or exactly emulate a native combobox. It would be
>> > interesting to know if there is a reason for this. It seems such an
>> > obvious thing to want to do.
>> >
>> > I hadn't planned to post these comments yet but I felt obliged to
>> > since
>> you
>> > were recommending these designs. I will send Bryan Garaventa my
>> > report as soon as it is complete. I very much hope that he can fix
>> > his designs
>> because
>> > they are better than any other combobox replacements I have tested.
>> However,
>> > I don't regard them as being good enough to recommend to our
>> > clients yet.
>> >
>> > Steve Green
>> > Managing Director
>> > Test Partners Ltd
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On
>> Behalf
>> > Of Brandon Keith Biggs
>> > Sent: 14 March 2018 14:03
>> > To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
>> > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Selects with drop downs
>> >
>> > Are these datalists?
>> > https://www.w3schools.com/tags/tag_datalist.asp
>> >
>> > Otherwise, AccDC has some fantastic comboboxes:
>> > http://whatsock.com/tsg/Coding%20Arena/ARIA%20Comboboxes/ARIA%
>> 20Comboboxes%20(Native%20Inputs,%20Editable%20and%20Readonly)/demo.ht
>> m
>> >
>> > http://whatsock.com/tsg/Coding%20Arena/ARIA%20Comboboxes/ARIA%
>> 20Comboboxes%20(Native%20Inputs,%20Multiselect%
>> 20Editable%20with%20Substring%20Match)/demo.htm
>> >
>> > http://whatsock.com/tsg/Coding%20Arena/ARIA%20Comboboxes/ARIA%
>> 20Comboboxes%20(Simulated,%20Readonly)/demo.htm
>> >
>> > There are several others, but you can find them in the technical
>> > style guide.
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> >
>> > Brandon Keith Biggs <http://brandonkeithbiggs.com/>;
>> >
>> > On Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 5:54 AM, Ryan E. Benson
>> > < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Pardon the title, I am not sure what these things are officially
>> >> called.
>> >> There's a group bent on using select elements aka dropdowns with
>> >> built-in search/filter functions. I believe there was a thread
>> >> here a while ago, but can't find it. Unless I am mistaken, the
>> >> thread leaned towards not using them, even though they can be made
>> >> accessible. The PM and the second developer didn't know what
>> >> framework they were using, and have yet to hear back from the
>> >> lead, but they think Bootstrap "or based on it."
>> >>
>> >> Any pointers would be great, since i have yet to get access to
>> >> their code.
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Ryan E. Benson
>> >> >> >> >> >> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>> >> >> >>
>> > >> > >> archives at
>> > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>> > >> > >> > >> archives at
>> > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>> > >> > >> > >> archives at
>> > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>> > >> > >> > >> > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>> > >> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
>> >> >> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>> >>
> > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >


--
Work hard. Have fun. Make history.