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Re: [EXTERNAL]Figures and Captions and Alt-text oh my...

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From: Sandy Feldman
Date: May 10, 2018 2:14PM

Jonathan,

I have put together a test page with one image using figcaption.

http://ineeda.coffee/arnie/figcaptiontest.html

Listening to it with Voice Over, I hear everything twice. Again, I not a
very skilled screen reader user. I find I like the less semantic page better

http://ineeda.coffee/arnie/paintings.html

Do other people hear what I do? What do you think?

thanks! Sandy


On 2018-05-10 3:13 PM, Jonathan Avila wrote:
>
> * Underneath the image of the painting is the title, size, and
> medium. Would it make sense to put this in a <caption>?
> The Pastry Chef. 30" x 24". Acrylic on canvas.
>
> Yes, I think this acts like a caption – so a figure and figure caption
> would be appropriate in my opinion.
>
> Regarding the details, the hidden text seems to work well for screen
> reader users.  Users with low vision are likely to miss details such
> as the accordion or the time on the clock, etc. and could also benefit
> from these.  How you expose the details to the low vision user without
> giving them to all users would be tricky.   Even with the hidden text
> example it wouldn't surprise me if that text shoed up in search
> results or something else.  In fact it does, the below is what is seen
> in google when I search for some of the text
>
> paintings. Arnie Lipsey, artist and filmmaker - I need a coffee
> <http://ineeda.coffee/arnie/paintings.html>;
>
> ineeda.coffee/arnie/paintings.html
>
> 1.
>
> Paintings. *Arnie's grandfather* decorating a cake. The Pastry Chef.
> 30" x 24". Acrylic on canvas. My*grandfather* applies the finishing
> touches to a crown-shaped cake in honour of George the fifth's
> coronation in 1937. Beside him on the floor is an
> *accordion* reflective of his fun loving "party guy" spirit. On the
> wall behind him is ...
>
> Jonathan Avila
>
> Chief Accessibility Officer
>
> *Level Access*
>
> <EMAIL REMOVED>
>
> 703.637.8957 office
>
> Visit us online:
>
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>
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> The information contained in this transmission may be attorney
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> *From:*Sandy Feldman < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 8, 2018 7:21 PM
> *To:* WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >; Jonathan
> Avila < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> *Subject:* Re: [WebAIM] [EXTERNAL] Re: Figures and Captions and
> Alt-text oh my...
>
> hey Jonathan,
>
> "the author doesn't want to  prevent the user from making their own
> determinations" is exactly why the artist wants his descriptions
> hidden from the sighted user. That's well said. It's been very
> interesting for me to read these. It's given me an insight into these
> dreamlike images.
>
> So, for example, the alt on one of the images is alt="Arnie's
> grandfather decorating a cake"
>
> Underneath the image of the painting is the title, size, and medium.
> Would it make sense to put this in a <caption>?
> The Pastry Chef. 30" x 24". Acrylic on canvas.
>
> And here is the visually hidden text, written by the artist:
> "My grandfather applies the finishing touches to a crown-shaped cake
> in honour of George the fifth's coronation in 1937. Beside him on the
> floor is an accordion reflective of his fun loving "party guy" spirit.
> On the wall behind him is a Soviet propaganda poster extolling the
> benefits of collective farming, a reference to his radical past. A
> pair of muddy army boots betrays his desertion from the Lithuanian army."
>
> Except for the alt none of this has any semantic tagging or ARIA
> labels. It's just plain old text, either hidden or displayed. It makes
> sense to me when I listen to it with Voice Over, but it would,
> wouldn't it?
>
> I am wondering if it makes sense to people using a screen reader, and
> if there's a better way I could do it.
>
> Sandy
>
>
>
>
> On 2018-05-08 7:08 PM, Jonathan Avila wrote:
> > I would also comment that in my opinion there is a difference >
> between alt text and a caption and they should be different. An >
> alternative provides a replacement for non-text content while a >
> caption associates the image with the content allowing for references
> > from the content. Alt text can also be useful to people with low >
> vision who might miss subtle details in the picture but do have some >
> sight. With art is difficult as what you see is subjective based on >
> your life's experience and the author doesn't want to prevent the >
> user from making their own determinations. In that since alt text >
> for art may be different from alt text for other images in that you >
> generally don't want to describe the image but the function. With >
> art you may want to describe the image and not express an >
> interpretation on the screen reader or any user. I suppose an >
> exception to this might be an art education class where you want to >
> communicate that. > > Jonathan > > Jonathan Avila Chief Accessibility
> Officer Level Access > <EMAIL REMOVED>
> <mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> > 703.637.8957 office > > Visit us
> online: Website | Twitter | Facebook | LinkedIn | Blog > > Looking to
> boost your accessibility knowledge? Check out our free > webinars! > >
> The information contained in this transmission may be attorney >
> privileged and/or confidential information intended for the use of >
> the individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message >
> is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, >
> dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is >
> strictly prohibited. > >