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RE: Visible skip navigation links, was: good example

for

From: Jim Thatcher
Date: Nov 13, 2003 1:40PM

Headings (H1...H6) are wonderful methods for jumping around the key sections
of a web page - WITH A SCREEN READER. The new "H" commands make that
navigation really terrific. In IE on Windows, they are no help with the
keyboard.

I was trying to point out that without a screen reader it is often the case
that visible skip links (any in-page links) do not work from the keyboard
(with Windows and IE). When you check out http://acb.org remember to TAB,
ENTER (to follow the skip link) (visual focus makes it look like it works)
BUT TAB again and you are back at the skip link.

Jim
Accessibility, What Not to do: http://jimthatcher.com/whatnot.htm.
Web Accessibility Tutorial: http://jimthatcher.com/webcourse1.htm.


-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Gunderson [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ]
Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 11:29 AM
To: <EMAIL REMOVED>
Subject: RE: Visible skip navigation links, was: good example

Including headers (H1-H6) for section titles is also a useful way to
implement skip navigation bars. Screen readers and the Opera Browser allow
user to navigate header markup.

Jon


At 11:11 AM 11/13/2003 -0600, Jim Thatcher wrote:

>I don't think the 508 provision on skip navigation is puts the whole
>burden on the author any more than the requirement to provide text
equivalents.
>
>
>
>I totally agree that a structured approach makes much more sense and I
>would be delighted to see authors and browsers collaborate to provide such
>cool navigation.
>
>
>
>For now, however, I look for techniques to allow users to jump around the
>page. The major screen readers and HPR have, somehow, fixed the problem I
>raised (skip links often don't work with the tab key); so you might say
>that the user agents and author team up to make it work. But often, as I
>indicated with acb.org, it doesn't work without the AT.
>
>
>
>Jim
>
>Accessibility, What Not to do: http://jimthatcher.com/whatnot.htm.
>
>Web Accessibility Tutorial:
>http://jimthatcher.com/webcourse1.htm.
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Jon Gunderson [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ]
>Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 10:36 AM
>To: Jim Thatcher
>Cc: <EMAIL REMOVED>
>Subject: RE: Visible skip navigation links, was: good example
>
>
>
>Jim Thatcher points out the fundamental problem with the skip
>
>navigation requirement of Section 508. Putting the whole burden on the
>author will
>
>always lead to browser compatibility issues. It should be a shared
>
>burden. Authors should be required to use some markup like the MAP
>
>element (which can use text links) to indicated collections of related
>links on a pages (often
>
>there are more than one navigation bar on a page) and browsers should be
>
>required to allow users to either move keyboard focus over the links
>
>contained in the MAP elements or move to the first link of a navigation
>
>bar. This allows for users to not only skip over navigation bars, but
>
>allows them to skip to a navigation bar if they waant to go to a different
>
>link.
>
>
>
>Jon
>
>
>
>
>
>On Thu, 13 Nov 2003, Jim Thatcher wrote:
>
>
>
> > Has anyone tried the visible skip link at, say, http://www.acb.org? Tab
to
>
> > "skip navigation links," press enter to follow the link and then tab
again.
>
> > Oops! My version of IE on Windows XP puts the selection back on the skip
>
> > link. I believe it is a fundamental bug in IE. Basically, in-page links
>
> > don't work correctly.
>
> >
>
> > It seems, as we discuss solutions like skipping navigation, we ought to
be
>
> > sure they work as expected. The frustration of navigating the web must
be
>
> > heightened and aggravated when presented "solutions" just don't work.
>
> >
>
> > There are a couple of work-arounds that I know about. Make the named
> anchor,
>
> > actually an empty link - this is annoying for some but most reliable. It
>
> > seems also that when the named anchor is in a table cell, then tabbing
>
> > works.
>
> >
>
> > Jim
>
> > Accessibility, What Not to do: http://jimthatcher.com/whatnot.htm.
>
> > Web Accessibility Tutorial: http://jimthatcher.com/webcourse1.htm.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > -----Original Message-----
>
> > From: Stephanie Sullivan [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ]
>
> > Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 8:29 AM
>
> > To: <EMAIL REMOVED>
>
> > Subject: Re: Visible skip navigation links, was: good example
>
> >
>
> > on 11/13/03 8:19 AM, Karl Groves at <EMAIL REMOVED> profoundly
spewed
>
> > forth their very articulate thoughts:
>
> >
>
> > > You're saying that those with motor impairments can use the skip link
> as a
>
> > > method to more quickly get to in-context links?
>
> >
>
> > That's what I've been trying to say... And Andrew said it SO much
better...
>
> > ;) Screenreaders (used mainly for sight impairment) can use both
> visual and
>
> > Tom Gilder-type skip links... So can people who surf by tabbing through
web
>
> > pages (used mainly for motor impairment ... Or as someone else pointed
out,
>
> > when you break your mouse. ;).
>
> >
>
> > The people who DON'T have any use for a skip link are the elderly who
> use a
>
> > mouse and are trying to click on the 1 x 1 skiplink (as the original
> example
>
> > said)... That would not happen because a person, surfing visually, using
a
>
> > mouse, will not have any use for a skip link. They will place their
> mouse in
>
> > the page at the place they want to go to (or link they wan to click)...
>
> >
>
> > This is all I've been trying to say from the beginning... ;) Thanks
> Andrew.
>
> > :D
>
> >
>
> > Stephanie Sullivan
>
> >
>
> > Contributing Author .: "Macromedia Dreamweaver MX 2004 Magic" :. New
Riders
>
> > CommunityMX Team Member :: http://www.communitymx.com
>
> > Technical Editor .: "DreamweaverMX Killer Tips" :. New Riders
>
> > VioletSky Design :: http://www.violetsky.net
>
> >
>
> > "Happiness lies in the joy of achievement and the thrill of creative
>
> > effort." --Franklin D. Roosevelt
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > ----
>
> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, suspend, or view list archives,
>
> > visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > ----
>
> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, suspend, or view list archives,
>
> > visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
>
> >
>
>

Jon Gunderson, Ph.D., ATP
Coordinator of Assistive Communication and Information Technology
Division of Rehabilitation - Education Services
MC-574
College of Applied Life Studies
University of Illinois at Urbana/Champaign
1207 S. Oak Street, Champaign, IL 61820

Voice: (217) 244-5870
Fax: (217) 333-0248

E-mail: <EMAIL REMOVED>

WWW: http://cita.rehab.uiuc.edu/
WWW: http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~jongund



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