# E-mail List Archives

## Re: MathML and simple maths content

**From:** Isabel Holdsworth**Date:** May 29, 2019 7:38AM

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Thanks guys. This is less than encouraging, and very frustrating,

especially for organisations in the process of moving paper assessment

online. I'm stumped as to what I can suggest.

Cheers, Isabel

On 29/05/2019, Birkir R. Gunnarsson < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:

> MathML support is spotty/inconsistent and sometimes downright missing.

> Kepe inmind that IE11 is eventually going to g away, probably in a

> matter of years, so we, as a community must focus on

> Chrome/Firefox/Edge (which will run on Chomium).

> In 2011 I had a short stint with Design Science, makers of Mathplayer

> (wich renders MathML into speech), but even then there lack of user

> agent support was a big problem for MathML. My understanding is that

> it's not improved, but we have nothing else to replace it.

> So I'd recommend going with MathML for now and then file issues with

> browsers/screen reader vendors to draw attention to the problem with

> missing MathML support.

>

>

>

> On 5/29/19, L Snider < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:

>> Hi Isabel,

>>

>> Sounds like it is the same as EPUB in terms of the issues with MathML.

>> Sorry, I made an error in my first email, the best practice is to do

>> MathML

>> and an image with alt text. My brain was tired! Sometimes people did

>> text,

>> but only for the most simple math (and even then image would be best

>> practice).

>>

>> From my limited research about 5 months ago, it is still the best one

>> right

>> now. However, people are working on different solutions, as this has been

>> an issue since it came out.

>>

>> Cheers

>>

>> Lisa

>>

>> On Wed, May 29, 2019 at 4:43 AM Isabel Holdsworth

>> < <EMAIL REMOVED> >

>> wrote:

>>

>>> Hi Bim,

>>>

>>> That's very interesting.

>>>

>>> We're using the Wiris math editor for the web, and rather than

>>> producing a graphic with alt text, it produces a styled equation whose

>>> aria-hidden attribute is set to true, accompanied by a visually hidden

>>> MathML expression.

>>>

>>> It's the MathML expression that's causing problems for our customer,

>>> since it isn't spoken in the same way, and often not at all, depending

>>> on the browser/screenreader combination.

>>>

>>> The graphic wouldn't be ideal for us either, for two reasons:

>>>

>>> 1. It's essentially an image of text which will pixellate when it's

>>> zoomed up, unless they're using SVG.

>>>

>>> 2. VoiceOver speaks alt text as a single string, and I don't think

>>> there's any way to interrogate it so as to break it down into its

>>> component parts. This is usually fine for short texts like button

>>> labels, but users need more granularity when reading complex maths

>>> expressions.

>>>

>>> But our customer might decide it's a better solution than what they've

>>> got at the moment, so thank you.

>>>

>>> Cheers, Isabel

>>>

>>> On 29/05/2019, Bim Egan < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:

>>> > Hi Isabel,

>>> >

>>> > I did a little research on this for a client, and found the following

>>> that

>>> > may be useful.

>>> >

>>> > WIRIS Math Type (equation editor and image producer:

>>> > https://docs.wiris.com/en/mathtype/start

>>> >

>>> > It's engine not only produces an image, but also the alt text that I

>>> > thought

>>> > made the equation very clear.

>>> >

>>> > There's an example on one of their tutorial pages at:

>>> > https://docs.wiris.com/en/mathtype/mathtype_desktop/basic_tutorials

>>> >

>>> > HTH,

>>> >

>>> > Bim

>>> > -------------

>>> > Bim Egan

>>> > Skype phone: 01223 96 87 96

>>> > Personal Email: <EMAIL REMOVED>

>>> > Skype ID: bim.accessequals

>>> >

>>> > Coordinator: Describe Online

>>> > W: www.describe-online.com

>>> > E: <EMAIL REMOVED>

>>> > ----------------------------------------

>>> > Partner: AccessEquals

>>> > W: www.accessequals.com

>>> > E: <EMAIL REMOVED>

>>> > -----Original Message-----

>>> > From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On

>>> Behalf

>>> > Of Isabel Holdsworth

>>> > Sent: 29 May 2019 08:58

>>> > To: WebAIM Discussion List

>>> > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] MathML and simple maths content

>>> >

>>> > Hi Lisa,

>>> >

>>> > I'm testing MathML with three browsers and getting inconsistent

>>> > results.

>>> > IE11 seems to work best, then Firefox, but JAWS and Chrome seem to

>>> provide

>>> > the info to screenreaders sometimes and not others.

>>> > It's frustrating, as I don't know what to suggest to our customer

>>> > other

>>> > than

>>> > to ensure that JAWS is always paired with IE11.

>>> >

>>> > Cheers, Isabel

>>> >

>>> > On 28/05/2019, L Snider < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:

>>> >> Hi Isabel,

>>> >>

>>> >> I would be curious to see what answers you get, as I know in EPUBs

>>> >> best practice (right now) is to do MathML AND plain text summaries

>>> >> (or

>>> >> whatever can be done in terms of explanations). I don't work with

>>> >> math

>>> >> on websites, so would love to know more about whether the two mesh or

>>> >> not.

>>> >>

>>> >> Cheers

>>> >>

>>> >> Lisa

>>> >>

>>> >> On Tue, May 28, 2019 at 8:34 AM Isabel Holdsworth

>>> >> < <EMAIL REMOVED> >

>>> >> wrote:

>>> >>

>>> >>> Hi all,

>>> >>>

>>> >>> Is it preferable to use MathML for all maths content, even simple

>>> >>> additions, fractions, etc? Or would plain text ( 1 + 2 or 1/4 ) be

>>> >>> acceptable?

>>> >>>

>>> >>> I get mixed results with MathML depending on which

>>> >>> screenreader/browser combination I'm using, and sometimes I wonder

>>> >>> if

>>> >>> plain text would provide more consistent results.

>>> >>>

>>> >>> Thanks, Isabel

>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives

>>> >>> >>> >>>

>>> >> >>> >> >>> >> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives

>>> >> >>> >>

>>> > >>> > >>> archives at

>>> > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives

>>> > >>> >

>>> > ---

>>> > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.

>>> > https://www.avg.com

>>> >

>>> >

>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >

>>> >>> >>> >>> >>>

>> >> >> >> >>

>

>

> --

> Work hard. Have fun. Make history.

> > > > >

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