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Re: MathML and simple maths content

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From: Brandon Keith Biggs
Date: May 29, 2019 8:00AM

Hello,
MathML is the best solution currently.
Both Jaws and NVDA support MathML on Windows.
It seems as if Firefox is the only browser that supports MathML with screen
readers. I hope I'm wrong though!
Here is where you can find the places to vote for MathML in Chrome and Edge.
<http://www.mathml-association.org/faq.html#3-where-can-i-vote-for-mathml-support-in-chrome-and-microsoft-edge>;
I don't know about VO on Firefox.
Thank you,

Brandon Keith Biggs <http://brandonkeithbiggs.com/>;


On Wed, May 29, 2019 at 6:38 AM Isabel Holdsworth < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
wrote:

> Thanks guys. This is less than encouraging, and very frustrating,
> especially for organisations in the process of moving paper assessment
> online. I'm stumped as to what I can suggest.
>
> Cheers, Isabel
>
> On 29/05/2019, Birkir R. Gunnarsson < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> > MathML support is spotty/inconsistent and sometimes downright missing.
> > Kepe inmind that IE11 is eventually going to g away, probably in a
> > matter of years, so we, as a community must focus on
> > Chrome/Firefox/Edge (which will run on Chomium).
> > In 2011 I had a short stint with Design Science, makers of Mathplayer
> > (wich renders MathML into speech), but even then there lack of user
> > agent support was a big problem for MathML. My understanding is that
> > it's not improved, but we have nothing else to replace it.
> > So I'd recommend going with MathML for now and then file issues with
> > browsers/screen reader vendors to draw attention to the problem with
> > missing MathML support.
> >
> >
> >
> > On 5/29/19, L Snider < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> >> Hi Isabel,
> >>
> >> Sounds like it is the same as EPUB in terms of the issues with MathML.
> >> Sorry, I made an error in my first email, the best practice is to do
> >> MathML
> >> and an image with alt text. My brain was tired! Sometimes people did
> >> text,
> >> but only for the most simple math (and even then image would be best
> >> practice).
> >>
> >> From my limited research about 5 months ago, it is still the best one
> >> right
> >> now. However, people are working on different solutions, as this has
> been
> >> an issue since it came out.
> >>
> >> Cheers
> >>
> >> Lisa
> >>
> >> On Wed, May 29, 2019 at 4:43 AM Isabel Holdsworth
> >> < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi Bim,
> >>>
> >>> That's very interesting.
> >>>
> >>> We're using the Wiris math editor for the web, and rather than
> >>> producing a graphic with alt text, it produces a styled equation whose
> >>> aria-hidden attribute is set to true, accompanied by a visually hidden
> >>> MathML expression.
> >>>
> >>> It's the MathML expression that's causing problems for our customer,
> >>> since it isn't spoken in the same way, and often not at all, depending
> >>> on the browser/screenreader combination.
> >>>
> >>> The graphic wouldn't be ideal for us either, for two reasons:
> >>>
> >>> 1. It's essentially an image of text which will pixellate when it's
> >>> zoomed up, unless they're using SVG.
> >>>
> >>> 2. VoiceOver speaks alt text as a single string, and I don't think
> >>> there's any way to interrogate it so as to break it down into its
> >>> component parts. This is usually fine for short texts like button
> >>> labels, but users need more granularity when reading complex maths
> >>> expressions.
> >>>
> >>> But our customer might decide it's a better solution than what they've
> >>> got at the moment, so thank you.
> >>>
> >>> Cheers, Isabel
> >>>
> >>> On 29/05/2019, Bim Egan < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> >>> > Hi Isabel,
> >>> >
> >>> > I did a little research on this for a client, and found the following
> >>> that
> >>> > may be useful.
> >>> >
> >>> > WIRIS Math Type (equation editor and image producer:
> >>> > https://docs.wiris.com/en/mathtype/start
> >>> >
> >>> > It's engine not only produces an image, but also the alt text that I
> >>> > thought
> >>> > made the equation very clear.
> >>> >
> >>> > There's an example on one of their tutorial pages at:
> >>> > https://docs.wiris.com/en/mathtype/mathtype_desktop/basic_tutorials
> >>> >
> >>> > HTH,
> >>> >
> >>> > Bim
> >>> > -------------
> >>> > Bim Egan
> >>> > Skype phone: 01223 96 87 96
> >>> > Personal Email: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> >>> > Skype ID: bim.accessequals
> >>> >
> >>> > Coordinator: Describe Online
> >>> > W: www.describe-online.com
> >>> > E: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> >>> > ----------------------------------------
> >>> > Partner: AccessEquals
> >>> > W: www.accessequals.com
> >>> > E: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> >>> > -----Original Message-----
> >>> > From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On
> >>> Behalf
> >>> > Of Isabel Holdsworth
> >>> > Sent: 29 May 2019 08:58
> >>> > To: WebAIM Discussion List
> >>> > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] MathML and simple maths content
> >>> >
> >>> > Hi Lisa,
> >>> >
> >>> > I'm testing MathML with three browsers and getting inconsistent
> >>> > results.
> >>> > IE11 seems to work best, then Firefox, but JAWS and Chrome seem to
> >>> provide
> >>> > the info to screenreaders sometimes and not others.
> >>> > It's frustrating, as I don't know what to suggest to our customer
> >>> > other
> >>> > than
> >>> > to ensure that JAWS is always paired with IE11.
> >>> >
> >>> > Cheers, Isabel
> >>> >
> >>> > On 28/05/2019, L Snider < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> >>> >> Hi Isabel,
> >>> >>
> >>> >> I would be curious to see what answers you get, as I know in EPUBs
> >>> >> best practice (right now) is to do MathML AND plain text summaries
> >>> >> (or
> >>> >> whatever can be done in terms of explanations). I don't work with
> >>> >> math
> >>> >> on websites, so would love to know more about whether the two mesh
> or
> >>> >> not.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Cheers
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Lisa
> >>> >>
> >>> >> On Tue, May 28, 2019 at 8:34 AM Isabel Holdsworth
> >>> >> < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> >>> >> wrote:
> >>> >>
> >>> >>> Hi all,
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> Is it preferable to use MathML for all maths content, even simple
> >>> >>> additions, fractions, etc? Or would plain text ( 1 + 2 or 1/4 ) be
> >>> >>> acceptable?
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> I get mixed results with MathML depending on which
> >>> >>> screenreader/browser combination I'm using, and sometimes I wonder
> >>> >>> if
> >>> >>> plain text would provide more consistent results.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> Thanks, Isabel
> >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >>> >>> > >>> >>>
> >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >>> >> > >>> >>
> >>> > > >>> > > >>> archives at
> >>> > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >>> > > >>> >
> >>> > ---
> >>> > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> >>> > https://www.avg.com
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> >
> >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>
> >> > >> > >> > >> > >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >