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Re: MathML and simple maths content

for

From: Brandon Keith Biggs
Date: May 29, 2019 8:49AM

Hello,
I just tested using NVDA on Chrome, and support is there.
I don't know about the visual content though.
Thank you,

Brandon Keith Biggs <http://brandonkeithbiggs.com/>;


On Wed, May 29, 2019 at 6:29 AM Birkir R. Gunnarsson <
<EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:

> MathML support is spotty/inconsistent and sometimes downright missing.
> Kepe inmind that IE11 is eventually going to g away, probably in a
> matter of years, so we, as a community must focus on
> Chrome/Firefox/Edge (which will run on Chomium).
> In 2011 I had a short stint with Design Science, makers of Mathplayer
> (wich renders MathML into speech), but even then there lack of user
> agent support was a big problem for MathML. My understanding is that
> it's not improved, but we have nothing else to replace it.
> So I'd recommend going with MathML for now and then file issues with
> browsers/screen reader vendors to draw attention to the problem with
> missing MathML support.
>
>
>
> On 5/29/19, L Snider < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> > Hi Isabel,
> >
> > Sounds like it is the same as EPUB in terms of the issues with MathML.
> > Sorry, I made an error in my first email, the best practice is to do
> MathML
> > and an image with alt text. My brain was tired! Sometimes people did
> text,
> > but only for the most simple math (and even then image would be best
> > practice).
> >
> > From my limited research about 5 months ago, it is still the best one
> right
> > now. However, people are working on different solutions, as this has been
> > an issue since it came out.
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Lisa
> >
> > On Wed, May 29, 2019 at 4:43 AM Isabel Holdsworth
> > < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Bim,
> >>
> >> That's very interesting.
> >>
> >> We're using the Wiris math editor for the web, and rather than
> >> producing a graphic with alt text, it produces a styled equation whose
> >> aria-hidden attribute is set to true, accompanied by a visually hidden
> >> MathML expression.
> >>
> >> It's the MathML expression that's causing problems for our customer,
> >> since it isn't spoken in the same way, and often not at all, depending
> >> on the browser/screenreader combination.
> >>
> >> The graphic wouldn't be ideal for us either, for two reasons:
> >>
> >> 1. It's essentially an image of text which will pixellate when it's
> >> zoomed up, unless they're using SVG.
> >>
> >> 2. VoiceOver speaks alt text as a single string, and I don't think
> >> there's any way to interrogate it so as to break it down into its
> >> component parts. This is usually fine for short texts like button
> >> labels, but users need more granularity when reading complex maths
> >> expressions.
> >>
> >> But our customer might decide it's a better solution than what they've
> >> got at the moment, so thank you.
> >>
> >> Cheers, Isabel
> >>
> >> On 29/05/2019, Bim Egan < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> >> > Hi Isabel,
> >> >
> >> > I did a little research on this for a client, and found the following
> >> that
> >> > may be useful.
> >> >
> >> > WIRIS Math Type (equation editor and image producer:
> >> > https://docs.wiris.com/en/mathtype/start
> >> >
> >> > It's engine not only produces an image, but also the alt text that I
> >> > thought
> >> > made the equation very clear.
> >> >
> >> > There's an example on one of their tutorial pages at:
> >> > https://docs.wiris.com/en/mathtype/mathtype_desktop/basic_tutorials
> >> >
> >> > HTH,
> >> >
> >> > Bim
> >> > -------------
> >> > Bim Egan
> >> > Skype phone: 01223 96 87 96
> >> > Personal Email: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> >> > Skype ID: bim.accessequals
> >> >
> >> > Coordinator: Describe Online
> >> > W: www.describe-online.com
> >> > E: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> >> > ----------------------------------------
> >> > Partner: AccessEquals
> >> > W: www.accessequals.com
> >> > E: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On
> >> Behalf
> >> > Of Isabel Holdsworth
> >> > Sent: 29 May 2019 08:58
> >> > To: WebAIM Discussion List
> >> > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] MathML and simple maths content
> >> >
> >> > Hi Lisa,
> >> >
> >> > I'm testing MathML with three browsers and getting inconsistent
> >> > results.
> >> > IE11 seems to work best, then Firefox, but JAWS and Chrome seem to
> >> provide
> >> > the info to screenreaders sometimes and not others.
> >> > It's frustrating, as I don't know what to suggest to our customer
> other
> >> > than
> >> > to ensure that JAWS is always paired with IE11.
> >> >
> >> > Cheers, Isabel
> >> >
> >> > On 28/05/2019, L Snider < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> >> >> Hi Isabel,
> >> >>
> >> >> I would be curious to see what answers you get, as I know in EPUBs
> >> >> best practice (right now) is to do MathML AND plain text summaries
> (or
> >> >> whatever can be done in terms of explanations). I don't work with
> math
> >> >> on websites, so would love to know more about whether the two mesh or
> >> >> not.
> >> >>
> >> >> Cheers
> >> >>
> >> >> Lisa
> >> >>
> >> >> On Tue, May 28, 2019 at 8:34 AM Isabel Holdsworth
> >> >> < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> Hi all,
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Is it preferable to use MathML for all maths content, even simple
> >> >>> additions, fractions, etc? Or would plain text ( 1 + 2 or 1/4 ) be
> >> >>> acceptable?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I get mixed results with MathML depending on which
> >> >>> screenreader/browser combination I'm using, and sometimes I wonder
> if
> >> >>> plain text would provide more consistent results.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Thanks, Isabel
> >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >> >>> > >> >>>
> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >> >> > >> >>
> >> > > >> > > >> archives at
> >> > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >> > > >> >
> >> > ---
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> >> > https://www.avg.com
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >
> >> > >> > >> > >> > >>
> > > > > > > > > >
>
>
> --
> Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
> > > > >