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Re: -AccessiBe! Help!!

for

From: Sandy Feldman
Date: May 26, 2022 9:58AM

<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DUTF=
-8">
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<p>"It would make more sense to hire a panel of people who use
various forms of assistive technology and have them provide
feedback on the non-overlay site as to what they would like to see
changed to make the site meet their needs."
</p>
<pre class=3D"moz-quote-pre" wrap=3D"">That's actually what happened =
when the site was developed. IMAGE Center clients got their say in how th=
e site worked and I made changes so that people could use it the way they=
liked. And now this. I can't even.

Thank you for helping to articulate the case against it. Wish us luck.
</pre>
<div class=3D"moz-signature">Sandy
<p><a href=3D"https://sandyfeldman.com">sandyfeldman.com</a>
<br>
<a href=3D"https://www.a11yready.com/">a11yready.com</a><a>
</a></p>
<a><br>
<br>
</a></div>
<div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">On 2022-05-26 11:48 a.m., Hayman,
Douglass wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite"
cite=3D"mid: <EMAIL REMOVED> 03=
=2Eprod.outlook.com">
<pre class=3D"moz-quote-pre" wrap=3D"">Sandy,

Like Andy mentioned, something that interferes with someone=E2=80=99s scr=
een reader creates a bad experience.

We wouldn=E2=80=99t propose that a full time user of a customized power w=
heelchair leave that at the door of a grocery store and instead use that =
one-sized-suits-all motorized chair in the store. While the customized c=
hair is suited to the person=E2=80=99s body, may use head controlled or o=
ther navigation, could have left or right handed joystick and so on, scre=
en reader users make choices on a whole variety of things. The idea of m=
aking it to this web site without a screen reader and then chancing upon =
=E2=80=9Coh good, they offer a screen reader=E2=80=9D is far-fetched. A=
nd some of these overlay firms give you the choice to turn such features =
off or hide them.

Those who rely upon screen readers would likely do something more system-=
wide if they were without their screen reader like in the case of using s=
omebody else=E2=80=99s machine. They might toggle on narrator in Windows=
or Voiceover on macOS and proceed from there to make do without their pr=
eferred assistive technology.

I primarily use Chrome as my web browser and have AccessiByeBy enabled to=
hide such overlays, only toggling that off to do things like looking at =
your site with the overlay in action.

It would make more sense to hire a panel of people who use various forms =
of assistive technology and have them provide feedback on the non-overlay=
site as to what they would like to see changed to make the site meet the=
ir needs.



Doug Hayman
IT Accessibility Coordinator
Information Technology
Olympic College
<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> "=
> <EMAIL REMOVED> </a><a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto=
: <EMAIL REMOVED> ">&lt;mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> &gt;</a>
(360) 475-7632



From: WebAIM-Forum <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto:weba=
<EMAIL REMOVED> ">&lt; <EMAIL REMOVED> =
g&gt;</a> On Behalf Of Sandy Feldman
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 8:34 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mai=
lto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ">&lt; <EMAIL REMOVED> &gt;</a=
>; Ryan E. Benson <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto:ryan.=
<EMAIL REMOVED> ">&lt; <EMAIL REMOVED> &gt;</a>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] - Re: [WebAIM] AccessiBe! Help!!

CAUTION: This email came from a non-OC system or external source. Beware =
of phishing and social engineering!


A lot of this site's users use assistive technology. The site owner is a =
JAWS user. I think examples are key in making the point.

I think if we can show that things are worse we can turn this thing off.
Sandy

sandyfeldman.com<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"https://nam12.=
safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fsandyfeldman.com%2F=
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D&amp;reserved=3D0&gt;</a>

On 2022-05-26 11:20 a.m., Ryan E. Benson wrote:

Unless they understand assistive technology, I'm fearful that examples

would not work. AccessiBe has been in a few lawsuits, so showing that mig=
ht

be the best way to go about it. Karl groves made his testimony in a case

public.



--

Ryan E. Benson



On Thu, May 26, 2022, 11:04 AM Sandy Feldman <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc=
2396E" href=3D"mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ">&lt; <EMAIL REMOVED> &=
gt;</a><a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto:sandy@sandyfeldm=
an.com">&lt;mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> &gt;</a> wrote:



Catherine, thank you.



I have seen those, and passed them along. They aren't helping. What I

really need is examples specific to this site of things going wrong.

Sandy



sandyfeldman.com

a11yready.com <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"https://www.a11y=
ready.com/">&lt;https://www.a11yready.com/&gt;</a><a class=3D"moz-txt-lin=
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e%2Fkv3kEuB7r5fwcKEcqa4a83k2EBApKE%3D&amp;reserved=3D0&gt;</a>





On 2022-05-26 10:57 a.m., Catherine Roy wrote:



Hi Sandy,



Have you seen these resources?



<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"https://overlayfactsheet.com/"=
>https://overlayfactsheet.com/</a><a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=
=3D"https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fo=
verlayfactsheet.com%2F&amp;data=3D05%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C75a80=
d01ae9341d3960e08da3f2d3a8d%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C=
637891760733626392%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2=
luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=3Dru5RXmri=
DZj9ADS0MFEynXblPnvOM37trOvo1DtcFwU%3D&amp;reserved=3D0">&lt;https://nam1=
2.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Foverlayfactsheet.=
com%2F&amp;data=3D05%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C75a80d01ae9341d3960e0=
8da3f2d3a8d%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C6378917607336263=
92%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik=
1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=3Dru5RXmriDZj9ADS0MFEynXbl=
PnvOM37trOvo1DtcFwU%3D&amp;reserved=3D0&gt;</a>



<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"https://accessibleweb.com/web-=
accessibility-news/do-away-with-overlays/">https://accessibleweb.com/web-=
accessibility-news/do-away-with-overlays/</a><a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc=
2396E" href=3D"https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp=
s%3A%2F%2Faccessibleweb.com%2Fweb-accessibility-news%2Fdo-away-with-overl=
ays%2F&amp;data=3D05%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C75a80d01ae9341d3960e0=
8da3f2d3a8d%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C6378917607336263=
92%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik=
1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=3DXrbjFUG7WhcY7atZkGoda8N8=
SjkBJsP54XPBSjnWGn0%3D&amp;reserved=3D0">&lt;https://nam12.safelinks.prot=
ection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Faccessibleweb.com%2Fweb-accessibi=
lity-news%2Fdo-away-with-overlays%2F&amp;data=3D05%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olymp=
ic.edu%7C75a80d01ae9341d3960e08da3f2d3a8d%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3=
085%7C1%7C0%7C637891760733626392%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAw=
MDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sd=
ata=3DXrbjFUG7WhcY7atZkGoda8N8SjkBJsP54XPBSjnWGn0%3D&amp;reserved=3D0&gt;=
</a>





<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"https://www.essentialaccessibi=
lity.com/blog/the-many-pitfalls-of-accessibility-overlays">https://www.es=
sentialaccessibility.com/blog/the-many-pitfalls-of-accessibility-overlays=
</a><a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"https://nam12.safelinks.pr=
otection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.essentialaccessibility.com%=
2Fblog%2Fthe-many-pitfalls-of-accessibility-overlays&amp;data=3D05%7C01%7=
Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C75a80d01ae9341d3960e08da3f2d3a8d%7C5089378aab154=
4c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891760733626392%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8=
eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000=
%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=3DIiXT0%2FCL9ITT%2Fia%2BayR%2F3O3FYHMjC3QXGuisRTrVFZ4=
%3D&amp;reserved=3D0">&lt;https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/=
?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.essentialaccessibility.com%2Fblog%2Fthe-many-pit=
falls-of-accessibility-overlays&amp;data=3D05%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.ed=
u%7C75a80d01ae9341d3960e08da3f2d3a8d%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7=
C1%7C0%7C637891760733626392%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiL=
CJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=3D=
IiXT0%2FCL9ITT%2Fia%2BayR%2F3O3FYHMjC3QXGuisRTrVFZ4%3D&amp;reserved=3D0&g=
t;</a>



HTH,

Catherine



--

Catherine Roy

<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"http://www.catherine-roy.ne=
t">www.catherine-roy.net</a><a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"ht=
tps://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.cath=
erine-roy.net%2F&amp;data=3D05%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C75a80d01ae9=
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felinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.catherine-roy.net%=
2F&amp;data=3D05%7C01%7Cdhayman%40olympic.edu%7C75a80d01ae9341d3960e08da3=
f2d3a8d%7C5089378aab1544c0b1bad4f21ccc3085%7C1%7C0%7C637891760733626392%7=
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yNRj4g90M8hevWeHE%3D&amp;reserved=3D0&gt;</a>



On May 26, 2022, at 10:46 AM, Nathan Clark <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc23=
96E" href=3D"mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ">&lt; <EMAIL REMOVED> &=
gt;</a><a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto:nathan.clark@add=
teq.com">&lt;mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> &gt;</a>

<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> =
">&lt; <EMAIL REMOVED> &gt;</a><a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" h=
ref=3D"mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ">&lt;mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> =
&gt;</a> wrote:



=EF=BB=BFDear Sandy,

That should not be to difficult knowing how bad their overlay thing works=
=2E



Sincerely,

Nathan Clark





On 5/26/22, Sandy Feldman <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mail=
to: <EMAIL REMOVED> ">&lt; <EMAIL REMOVED> &gt;</a><a class=3D"=
moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ">&lt;mailto:=
<EMAIL REMOVED> &gt;</a>

<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> "=
>&lt; <EMAIL REMOVED> &gt;</a><a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" hre=
f=3D"mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ">&lt;mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> &gt;=
</a> wrote:



Nate, thanks - but it didn't work! We need to provide actual examples fro=
m



the site.





Sandy





sandyfeldman.com



a11yready.com









On 2022-05-26 10:16 a.m., Nathan Clark wrote:





Just tell them that disability rights organizations like the National



Federation of the Blind have spoken out against Accessibee and they



don't suggest any company using them.





Nate





On 5/26/22, Sandy Feldman <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mail=
to: <EMAIL REMOVED> ">&lt; <EMAIL REMOVED> &gt;</a><a class=3D"=
moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ">&lt;mailto:=
<EMAIL REMOVED> &gt;</a>

<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> "=
>&lt; <EMAIL REMOVED> &gt;</a><a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" hre=
f=3D"mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ">&lt;mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> &gt;=
</a> wrote:





hey all,





I'd really appreciate your help with this.





A client has been pressured into adding AccessiBe to their site



imagemd.org/





We have a version without the overlay dev.imagemd.org/. What I'm hoping



is



you guys find things AccessiBe makes worse and we can justify disabling



it.





Thank you so much!





--



Sandy





sandyfeldman.com



a11yready.com





















--

Nathan Clark

QA Automation Analyst Tech team

Accessibility assistant

CPACC

cell: 410-446-7259

email: <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:Nathan.clark@=
addteq.com"> <EMAIL REMOVED> </a><a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"=
href=3D"mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ">&lt;mailto:Nathan.clark@addteq.c=
om&gt;</a>

101 Village Blvd

Princeton, NJ 08540

SMBE &amp; Minority Owned Business


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