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Re: is grouping checkboxes using radiogrouppermisible?

for

From: wolfgang.berndorfer@zweiterblick.at
Date: Jul 7, 2022 10:36AM

Would steps be an option?

Step 1: Options Yes, No and prefer not to say

Step 2a: If yes is chosen a list of possible options (Checkboxes is displayed.
Step 2b: Else go directly to step 3.

Step 3: Next form component.

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of Brooks Newton
Sent: Thursday, July 7, 2022 5:05 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] [EXTERNAL] Re: is grouping checkboxes using radiogroup permisible?

Hi Mark,

What is the expected user experience when an assistive technology user encounters a radio group?

My thought is that the expectation is that, without additional instruction, each radio group will contain mutually exclusive choices which are navigable by pressing the arrow keys. There will be no expectation of embedded content within the radio group itself that is dependent upon which radio button happens to be currently selected. The native semantics of radio groups, and correspondingly, the way that user agents paired with assistive technology announce the radio button groups do not provide programmatically available details associated with the embedded content that is contingent on the current radio button selection.

Now, of course, if you can see the page as you arrow through the radio group choices you'll see that some choices come with extra choices. That's great if you can see the whole page and get the gist of what's happening onscreen when you select various radio buttons . Being aware of these contingencies provides sighted users with the privilege of making an informed choice as to which of the radio button choices is the one they want to make.

If you can't see those contingent, embedded choices pop up onscreen as you navigate through the radio button group, then you miss out on that additional information which could help you make the right radio button choices. That's just my take. I'd love to hear what Birkir and others think.

Sorry if I haven't replied properly to this thread. I'm just using GMail and hitting reply. If there's a better way to respond to the list, please provide those details in the instructions for the Listserv. Or, I guess we can just assume that everyone "gets" the intended interaction without explicit instructions and see how that goes. Isn't it just easier for everyone to have a brief bit of instructive text?

Brooks

On Thu, Jul 7, 2022 at 2:36 AM Mark Magennis < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
wrote:

> I'm still not sure I get it Birkir. The checkboxes are only of
> interest when you select Yes so if you select the No radio button it
> doesn't seem to be important to know that the checkboxes were there
> when Yes was selected but are no longer there. They're simply not
> relevant to you. And I don't see why it would be important, or even
> helpful, to tell the user in advance that if they select Yes some more
> checkboxes will appear. If they do select Yes then they the checkboxes
> will be the next question they come across, in the same way that if
> they had selected No the next question would be a different one. Am I missing something in the experience?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of
> Birkir R. Gunnarsson
> Sent: 06 July 2022 19:28
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] [EXTERNAL] Re: is grouping checkboxes using
> radiogroup permisible?
>
> Yes, pressing the arrow keys to navigate between the radiobuttons will
> skip right past the checkboxes (and make them disappear if you switch
> from "yes" to "no").
> At least I would warn the screen reader user that selecting "yes"
> result in additional checkboxes being displayed between the yes and no
> radio buttons.
>
> With a sufficient warning this is ok, but it is a confusing situation
> when the experience is linearized.
>
> On 7/6/22, Mark Magennis < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> > HI Birkir. I imagined that David was probably envisaging placing the
> > checkboxes immediately between the yes and no radio buttons which
> > would be a logical design visually. But what potential confusion do
> > you think this could cause? Is it that it might be difficult to keep
> > track of where you are in the nesting?
> >
> > Mark
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf
> > Of Birkir R. Gunnarsson
> > Sent: 06 July 2022 17:59
> > To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [WebAIM] is grouping checkboxes using
> > radiogroup permisible?
> >
> > You can have nested fieldset elements, yes.
> > You can even group the checkboxes in a fieldset and add
> > aria-label="something descriptive as a group label" if you don't
> > need a nested <legend> with visible text.
> > Just make sure that group comes after the radio buttons, not between
> > the yes and the no, in content/focus order, it could potentially
> > create a lot of confusion.
> >
> >
> >
> > On 7/6/22, David Farough < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> >> We have the following situation:
> >> In a user profile, we have a group of radiobuttons which asks
> >> whether you are part of an employment equity group.
> >> Options are yes, No and prefer not to say.
> >> If yes is chosen a list of possible options (Checkboxes is displayed.
> >> Would using the radiogroup with the checkboxes be a good option to
> >> handle this in order to minimize the repetition of the group label?
> >> Is there a better solution?
> >> Thanks
> >> > >> > >> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >> > >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
> > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > >
>
>
> --
> Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
> > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >