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Re: Form to be used to collect A11y feedback

for

From: David Farough
Date: Dec 8, 2022 1:55PM

I didn't notice that!
I have some vision, but not enough to pick that up I guess.

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of Steve Green
Sent: Thursday, December 8, 2022 2:03 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Form to be used to collect A11y feedback

Visually, the text labels look like column headers in a data table, and the textboxes are in a row beneath them. The plus button adds more rows of textboxes. The button that appears to be unlabelled removes the rows. The button label is a minus sign, but NVDA does not announce it with the default verbosity setting. Despite looking like a data table, the content is not marked up as a table so it just appears to be a linear sequence of 4 text labels followed by a multiple of 4 textboxes depending on how many rows have been added. Visually it makes perfect sense, but I wonder how many screen reader users would be able to work it out.

Steve


-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Sent: 08 December 2022 18:44
To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Form to be used to collect A11y feedback

If I really really wanted to fill those fields out I would've counted the labels and matched up the numbers with the inputs. This means I probably would get it right eventually but almost certainly after trying to submit a couple of times with errors.
(in other words I would give up before then) No idea what the buttons do, I figured I could after pressing them and exploring the form after to see the difference, but I didn't check them.
With the labels, you can fix both content order and screen reader announcement by adding an aria-owns to the for attribute for the label, the value of both is the id of the input.
So
<label for="ip1" aria-owns="ip1">First name</label> <label for="ip2" aria-owns="ip2">Last name</label> <input type="text" id="ip1"> <input type="text" id="ip2">

would be exposed to a screen reader as First name label, first name input, last name label, last name input.
This is one of the couple of hacks where aria-owns can come in handy.
Of course the solution is to change the source order but sometimes you got to be creative.

On 12/8/22, Steve Green < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> Birkir, were you able to make sense of the sections of the form
> containing consecutive unlabelled textboxes? Did you understand what
> the buttons after those textboxes are for? NVDA announces them as
> "button plus" and "button", so their purpose may be ambiguous.
>
> Steve
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of
> Birkir R. Gunnarsson
> Sent: 08 December 2022 16:34
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Form to be used to collect A11y feedback
>
> Someone who is totally blind could probably complete the form but it
> would take them likely twice as long + requiring 2 or 3 tries to submit it.
> Again, just fixing label association and grouping (which would not
> impact the look and feel) could significant improve this.
>
> On 12/8/22, Steve Green < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>> It depends on the nature and severity of their visual impairment.
>> People who are totally blind will have the most difficulty. Some
>> people with low vision or colour perception impairment may have
>> difficulty if they use keyboard navigation because some focus
>> indicators have low colour contrast, but this is not a problem if
>> they use a mouse.
>>
>> Accessibility is rarely (perhaps never) a binary accessible /
>> inaccessible matter. The level of accessibility is invariably
>> different for people with different needs. You could probably design
>> content that is inaccessible to everyone, but in practice that rarely
>> happens, at least since GeoCities was terminated.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf
>> Of Dolenko, Kristen
>> Sent: 08 December 2022 15:50
>> To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
>> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Form to be used to collect A11y feedback
>>
>> Interesting. So generally speaking, people with visual impairments
>> would be unable to use it, correct?
>>
>> Kristen Dolenko
>> Senior Web Strategist / Conseilleure principale en stratégie Web
>> E-Communications, Strategic Policy / DG politique stratégique Canada
>> Border Services Agency / Agence des services frontaliers du Canada
>>
>> mobile: 1-343-551-2896
>> <EMAIL REMOVED>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf
>> Of Steve Green
>> Sent: December 8, 2022 10:37 AM
>> To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
>> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Form to be used to collect A11y feedback
>>
>> ***ATTENTION***
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>>
>> The form is good in terms of some factors such as colour contrast of
>> text and keyboard operability, but it's bad in other respects such as
>> the colour contrast of focus indicators. In terms of assistive
>> technology support, it starts well but then there are all the
>> unlabelled form controls that Birkir mentions.
>>
>> As such, many people with disabilities will have no problem using the
>> form, but it will be difficult or impossible for others.
>>
>> Steve Green
>> Managing Director
>> Test Partners Ltd
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf
>> Of Birkir R. Gunnarsson
>> Sent: 08 December 2022 15:17
>> To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
>> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Form to be used to collect A11y feedback
>>
>> A 5-min assessment tells me this form is pretty bad.
>> There are tons of unlabeled fields, some labels associated with
>> multiple fields, buttons with unclear labels (what are the + and -
>> buttons). Lots of form control instructions that should be associated
>> with the fields, grouped labels that are not properly grouped.
>> Given how long this form is and the collection of accessibility
>> issues I personally would not bother filling it in. I'd rather call
>> or go on social media.
>>
>>
>> On 12/8/22, Dolenko, Kristen < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>>> Good morning.
>>> Very concerned that a client refuses to take advice regarding piggy
>>> backing requirement to collect feedback on the accessibility of our
>>> services and website using this form: Submit your feedback to the
>>> Canada Border Services Agency
>>> (cbsa-asfc.gc.ca)<https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/contact/feedback-retro
>>> a
>>> c
>>> tion-eng.html?type=0>
>>>
>>> Goes without saying that neglecting to modify the form OR the parent
>>> page makes the form un-usable for the purposes of collecting this
>>> type of feedback; however, I ran the form itself through the WebAIM
>>> tool and got 11 fails.
>>>
>>> Does anyone have time to give me an assessment of how serious these
>>> fails are?
>>>
>>> Kristen Dolenko
>>> Senior Web Strategist / Conseilleure principale en stratégie Web
>>> E-Communications, Strategic Policy / DG politique stratégique Canada
>>> Border Services Agency / Agence des services frontaliers du Canada
>>>
>>> mobile: 1-343-551-2896
>>> <EMAIL REMOVED> <mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> .
>>> c
>>> a
>>> >
>>>
>>> >>> >>> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>>> >>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
>> >> >> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>> >> >> >> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>> >> >> >> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>> >> >> >> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>> >>
>
>
> --
> Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
> > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >


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