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Re: Providing accessible names with <title>

From: Nick Bromley
Date: Sep 7, 2023 10:16AM

Next message: Jeremy Echols: "Re: Providing accessible names with "</a></li> <li><strong>Previous message:</strong> <a href="mail_message?id=49406">Mark Magennis: "Re: Form fields in a sentence"</a></li> <li><strong>Next message in Thread:</strong> <a href="mail_message?id=49408">Jeremy Echols: "Re: Providing accessible names with <title>"</a></li> <li><strong>Previous message in Thread:</strong> <a href="mail_message?id=49404">Mark Magennis: "Re: Providing accessible names with <title>"</a></li> <li><a href="mail_thread?thread=10860">View all messages in this Thread</a></li> </ul> <hr> It was mainly for the tooltip, yes. These particular examples are still displaying as expected in my versions of Firefox, Chrome, Edge, plus Safari on Mac, which I think are all up to date. Are you seeing a different experience more generally?<br /> <br /> Ideally I'd recommend the client creates bespoke tooltips, but there are so many more significant issues to deal with that the request would be way, way down the priority order. So keeping 'title' retains at least some benefit for now.<br /> <br /> -----Original Message-----<br /> From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of Mark Magennis<br /> Sent: Thursday, September 7, 2023 4:58 PM<br /> To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> ><br /> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Providing accessible names with <title><br /> <br /> Nick, when you say the <title> attribute provides some benefit for certain users, do you mean that browsers sometimes generate tooltips containing it? If so, I wouldn't refer to this as a benefit because if a button needs a tooltip, and in my opinion all icon-only buttons do need tooltips, then the browser-generated tooltip will only be displayed by some browsers and support is dwindling. It used to be only Firefox that didn't display a tooltip with the <title> but now I believe it's Chrome and Edge as well. So this isn't a reliable method of providing a benefit and if it is needed it can't really be called a benefit.<br /> <br /> From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > on behalf of Nick Bromley < <EMAIL REMOVED> ><br /> Sent: Thursday 7 September 2023 10:35<br /> To: 'WebAIM Discussion List' < <EMAIL REMOVED> ><br /> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [WebAIM] Providing accessible names with <title><br /> <br /> [You don't often get email from <EMAIL REMOVED> . Learn why this is important at https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification ]<br /> <br /> I think the vast majority of the user group of this particular site are likely to be using non-ancient tech, but I think I'll still log a recommendation to update the naming approach while still retaining the <title> attribute as it does provide some benefit for certain users. Good point about use of hidden text.<br /> <br /> -----Original Message-----<br /> From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of Steve Green<br /> Sent: Thursday, September 7, 2023 10:20 AM<br /> To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> ><br /> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Providing accessible names with <title><br /> <br /> The "title" attribute has been part of the Accessible Name Computation for a long time, so all user agents should use it if an accessible name is not provided by a higher priority method. It's certainly sufficient for WCAG conformance, even if it's a bit nasty.<br /> <br /> I don't know of any assistive technologies that don't use the "title" attribute if necessary. There might be some, but now we're returning to the age old question of whether we need to worry about user agents that don't support current standards.<br /> <br /> I just had the same issue on a website and recommended that the accessible name should be implemented as hidden text if possible (because non-ARIA solutions should be the first choice), otherwise by an "aria-label" attribute.<br /> <br /> Steve Green<br /> Managing Director<br /> Test Partners Ltd<br /> <br /> <br /> -----Original Message-----<br /> From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of Nick Bromley<br /> Sent: Thursday, September 7, 2023 10:02 AM<br /> To: 'WebAIM Discussion List' < <EMAIL REMOVED> ><br /> Subject: [WebAIM] Providing accessible names with <title><br /> <br /> I'm testing a site that has a whole load of icon-based buttons that are named only with the <title> attribute. I know this isn't considered a good method of providing an accessible name, but it works across multiple browsers, devices, screen readers, and voice control software (although all reasonably modern, it has to be said). So when the W3C states in its <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FWAI%2FARIA%2Fapg%2Fpractices%2Fnames-and-descriptions%2F&data%7C01%7CMark.Magennis%40skillsoft.com%7C81a07cca379b4f8464f908dbaf85c6ae%7C50361608aa23494da2332fd14d6a03f4%7C0%7C0%7C638296761343837084%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=EP6QVklYZqj4verTgpE1taMhhMMf6CZNtMYlrdXKTXE%3D&reserved=0<https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/apg/practices/names-and-descriptions/>><br /> 'Providing Accessible Names and Descriptions' authoring practice guidance that fallback mechanisms (of which <title> is one) "typically yield low quality accessible names that are not effective", is there anything I'm missing? Perhaps some more niche assistive technologies that I haven't verified it with? Or does it date back to a time when support was more patchy?<br /> <br /> I'm minded to log a best practice recommendation to use aria-label instead, but could do with a bit more specific justification, if any exists.<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> - - -<br /> <br /> Nick Bromley<br /> <br /> Director & Accessibility Consultant<br /> <br /> Red Kite Digital Accessibility Ltd <hr> <ul> <li><strong>Next message:</strong> <a href="mail_message?id=49408">Jeremy Echols: "Re: Providing accessible names with <title>"</a></li> <li><strong>Previous message:</strong> <a href="mail_message?id=49406">Mark Magennis: "Re: Form fields in a sentence"</a></li> <li><strong>Next message in Thread:</strong> <a href="mail_message?id=49408">Jeremy Echols: "Re: Providing accessible names with <title>"</a></li> <li><strong>Previous message in Thread:</strong> <a href="mail_message?id=49404">Mark Magennis: "Re: Providing accessible names with <title>"</a></li> <li><a href="mail_thread?thread=10860&id=49407#49407">View all messages in this Thread</a></li> </ul> </div> </article>  <aside id="articlemeta"> </aside> </main> <footer> <div id="footerresources"> <div class="footerblock"> <h2 id="copyright">©2024 WebAIM</h2> <p id="contact">Institute for Disability Research, Policy, and Practice<br> Utah State University<br> 6807 Old Main Hill<br> Logan, UT 84322-6807<br> <a class="phone" href="tel:4357977024">435.797.7024</a></p> <div id="checkpage"> <h2>Check Your Accessibility</h2> <form action="https://wave.webaim.org/report" novalidate> <label for="waveurl">Web site address:</label> <input type="url" id="waveurl" name="url" title="Web site address"> <input type="submit" value="WAVE"> </form> </div> </div> <div class="footerblock"> <h2 id="blog">From the Blog</h2> <ul><li><a href="/blog/2024-campaign-site-accessibility/">Web Accessibility in the 2024 Presidential Campaigns</a></li><li><a href="/blog/screen-reader-user-survey-10-results/">Screen Reader User Survey #10 Results</a></li><li><a href="/blog/webaim-and-browserstack/">WebAIM and BrowserStack: Allies for Digital Accessibility Excellence</a></li><li><a href="/blog/an-evolution-in-microsoft-office-accessibility/">An Evolution in Microsoft Office Accessibility</a></li></ul> </div> <div class="footerblock"> <h2 id="popular">Popular Resources</h2> <ul> <li><a href="/training/virtual">WebAIM Training</a></li> <li><a href="/standards/wcag/checklist">WCAG 2 Checklist</a></li> <li><a href="/newsletter">WebAIM Monthly Newsletter</a></li> <li><a href="/resources/contrastchecker">Color Contrast Checker</a></li> <li><a href="/resources/designers/">Web Accessibility for Designers</a></li> <li><a href="http://wave.webaim.org/">WAVE Web Accessibility Evaluation Tool</a></li> </ul> </div> <div id="footerlinks"> <ul> <li><a id="footercontact" href="/contact">Contact</a></li> <li><a id="footerabout" href="/about">About</a></li> <li><a id="footerrss" href="/community/rss">RSS Feeds</a></li> <li><a id="footertwit" href="http://twitter.com/webaim">Twitter</a></li> <li><a id="footercopyright" href="/copyright">Copyright & Terms of Use</a></li> </ul> </div> <div class="clear"></div> </div> </footer> </body> </html>