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Thread: Re: Role attribute
Number of posts in this thread: 20 (In chronological order)
From: Jon Gunderson
Date: Thu, Oct 08 2009 6:35AM
Subject: Re: Role attribute
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It is part of the new Accessible Rich Internet Accessibility Specification of the W3C:
Links:
http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/
http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-primer/
Jon
---- Original message ----
>Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2009 08:31:05 -0400
>From: Geof Collis < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>Subject: [WebAIM] Role attribute
>To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
>Hi All
>
>Does anyone have any documentation on the "role" attribute? I've just
>stepped out of the screen reader wilderness after 7 years, (JAWS4.5
>and 6.0) into the present(JAWS 10.0) and for the first time I heard
>the words "landmark " and I'm not sure why I need to hear this, as
>if my ears aren't already bombarded by enough useless chatter I dont
>need to hear, so any info on what it's use is would be appreciated.
>
>cheers
>
>Geof
>
>
>
>Editor
>Accessibility News
>www.accessibilitynews.ca
>Accessibility News International
>www.accessibilitynewsinternational.com
>
>
>
From: Geof Collis
Date: Thu, Oct 08 2009 6:40AM
Subject: Role attribute
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Hi All
Does anyone have any documentation on the "role" attribute? I've just
stepped out of the screen reader wilderness after 7 years, (JAWS4.5
and 6.0) into the present(JAWS 10.0) and for the first time I heard
the words "landmark " and I'm not sure why I need to hear this, as
if my ears aren't already bombarded by enough useless chatter I dont
need to hear, so any info on what it's use is would be appreciated.
cheers
Geof
Editor
Accessibility News
www.accessibilitynews.ca
Accessibility News International
www.accessibilitynewsinternational.com
From: Jared Smith
Date: Thu, Oct 08 2009 8:00AM
Subject: Re: Role attribute
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On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 6:31 AM, Geof Collis wrote:
> for the first time I heard
> the words "landmark " and I'm not sure why I need to hear this, as
> if my ears aren't already bombarded by enough useless chatter I dont
> need to hear, so any info on what it's use is would be appreciated.
Landmarks provide a way of navigating between significant page areas.
They can be used by developers to identify page sections, such as
search, main content, navigation, etc. While it is extra "clutter",
landmarks can significantly increase the usability and accessibility
of the page by providing direct access to these important page
elements.
In JAWS, INSERT+CTRL+SEMICOLON allows you to Select a Landmark. The
SEMICOLON and SHIFT+SEMICOLON keystrokes Move to Next Landmark and
Move to Previous Landmark.
Landmarks are only supported in Firefox 3+ and Internet Explorer 8.
Jared Smith
WebAIM
From: Geof Collis
Date: Thu, Oct 08 2009 8:30AM
Subject: Re: Role attribute
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Thanks!
So sighted people dont have to read it or listen to it?
Have you tried the INSERT+CTRL+SEMICOLON command? I for the life of
me am having one heck of a time trying to position my fingers to
accomplish this and I dont have any disability in my hands. I prefer
having skip links at the top of the page to jump to imnportant areas
of the page and I'd be willing to bet that someone who was blind with
arthritis would be inclined to agree.
I think developers need to go back to the drawing board on this one. :O)
>Landmarks provide a way of navigating between significant page areas.
>They can be used by developers to identify page sections, such as
>search, main content, navigation, etc. While it is extra "clutter",
>landmarks can significantly increase the usability and accessibility
>of the page by providing direct access to these important page
>elements.
>
>In JAWS, INSERT+CTRL+SEMICOLON allows you to Select a Landmark. The
>SEMICOLON and SHIFT+SEMICOLON keystrokes Move to Next Landmark and
>Move to Previous Landmark.
>
Editor
Accessibility News
www.accessibilitynews.ca
Accessibility News International
www.accessibilitynewsinternational.com
From: Geof Collis
Date: Thu, Oct 08 2009 8:35AM
Subject: Re: Role attribute
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>Well I solved the problem of getting to landmarks,it isn't insert
>plus ctrl plus semicolon, it's just semicolon so that defeats my
>argument about arthritis. LOL
Editor
Accessibility News
www.accessibilitynews.ca
Accessibility News International
www.accessibilitynewsinternational.com
From: deblist
Date: Thu, Oct 08 2009 8:45AM
Subject: Re: Role attribute
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On Thu, 8 Oct 2009, Geof Collis wrote:
> I think developers need to go back to the drawing board on this one. :O)
The landmarks are just a framework that the user agent can
implement however they want. If JAWS' implementation is imperfect
for its users, then feedback from the users will (hopefully)
convince them to change the implementation.
It's not just JAWS users who benefit from landmarks, also. I am a
sighted hands-free user, and even the partial implementation in
Firefox 3 has given me access to certain new features, such as
dynamically updating page elements.
Dynamically updating page elements are probably the most exciting
feature of the specification from the point of view of the JAWS
user, although, again, the current implementation is lacking at
best. What the specification will allow is that as pages change,
as information on the changes because of the passing of time or
other events that go on in the page, the user can be notified of
those changes.
But again, the implementations in JAWS and the browsers still
have a long way to go.
-Deborah
From: Bevi Chagnon | PubCom
Date: Thu, Oct 08 2009 8:50AM
Subject: Re: Role attribute
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Jared wrote:
> In JAWS, INSERT+CTRL+SEMICOLON allows you to Select a Landmark.
Wow. My laptop keyboard doesn't have an INSERT key. Thank goodness that I
don't need to use it!
--Bevi Chagnon
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . .
Bevi Chagnon | = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = | www.PubCom.com
Government and non-profit publishing specialists for print, web, marketing,
Acrobat, & 508
PublishingDC Group Co-Moderator |
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PublishingDC
Bevi blogs on Facebook |
www.facebook.com/pages/Takoma-Park-MD/PubCom/139231069223
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. .
From: Geof Collis
Date: Thu, Oct 08 2009 9:00AM
Subject: Re: Role attribute
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Hi Deborah
How do you accomplish it using Firefox?
After playing around with it a bit I kind of like it. I would like to
se it expanded so that I can specify whether it is main
navigation or main contentt, currently it calls all navigation areas
by the same name.
cheers
Geof
Editor
Accessibility News
www.accessibilitynews.ca
Accessibility News International
www.accessibilitynewsinternational.com
From: ben morrison
Date: Thu, Oct 08 2009 9:15AM
Subject: Re: Role attribute
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On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Geof Collis < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
>>Well it appears that I cant use it because it doesn't validate
>>under xhtml 1.0 strict. Is this going to change anytime soon?
Depends what important to you - validation for tick box validation/
adding useful attributes for currently supported devices..
Ben
--
Ben Morrison
From: Geof Collis
Date: Thu, Oct 08 2009 9:20AM
Subject: Re: Role attribute
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>Well it appears that I cant use it because it doesn't validate
>under xhtml 1.0 strict. Is this going to change anytime soon?
cheers
Geof
Editor
Accessibility News
www.accessibilitynews.ca
Accessibility News International
www.accessibilitynewsinternational.com
From: Jared Smith
Date: Thu, Oct 08 2009 9:30AM
Subject: Re: Role attribute
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On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 9:12 AM, Geof Collis < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
>Well it appears that I cant use it because it doesn't validate
>under xhtml 1.0 strict.
ARIA roles are perfectly acceptable and valid. Just because some
validator tells you they're not valid doesn't mean they're not.
I don't quite understand the criticism of something that has potential
to do more for keyboard accessibility than anything that's come along
in the last 10 years. "Skip" links are a hack. ARIA landmarks are a
solution (or will be once support gets better).
Jared
From: Steven Faulkner
Date: Thu, Oct 08 2009 9:35AM
Subject: Re: Role attribute
← Previous message | Next message →
The W3C is slow in moving on the issue of ARIA validation, It is a W3C
specification that has been designed to be used with HTML and XHTML (as well
as other languages) so using it even though it does not valdiate is no
problem.
If you do want your ARIA to validate use the HTML5 doctype <!DOCTYPE HTML>
on your html docs.
when you run it through the W3C validator it will valdiate with ARIA.
regards
stevef
2009/10/8 Jared Smith < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 9:12 AM, Geof Collis < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> >
> >Well it appears that I cant use it because it doesn't validate
> >under xhtml 1.0 strict.
>
> ARIA roles are perfectly acceptable and valid. Just because some
> validator tells you they're not valid doesn't mean they're not.
>
> I don't quite understand the criticism of something that has potential
> to do more for keyboard accessibility than anything that's come along
> in the last 10 years. "Skip" links are a hack. ARIA landmarks are a
> solution (or will be once support gets better).
>
> Jared
>
From: Geof Collis
Date: Thu, Oct 08 2009 9:50AM
Subject: Re: Role attribute
← Previous message | Next message →
>Well I'd like to have both. :O) Will probably change my DTD to transitional.
cheers
Geof
>Depends what important to you - validation for tick box validation/
>adding useful attributes for currently supported devices..
>
>Ben
>--
>Ben Morrison
>
From: Geof Collis
Date: Thu, Oct 08 2009 9:55AM
Subject: Re: Role attribute
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Hi Steve
Sorry I'm not familiar with that one do you have alink to an example?
cheers
Geof
At 11:34 AM 10/8/2009, you wrote:
>The W3C is slow in moving on the issue of ARIA validation, It is a W3C
>specification that has been designed to be used with HTML and XHTML (as well
>as other languages) so using it even though it does not valdiate is no
>problem.
>
>If you do want your ARIA to validate use the HTML5 doctype <!DOCTYPE HTML>
>on your html docs.
>when you run it through the W3C validator it will valdiate with ARIA.
>
>
>regards
>stevef
>
>2009/10/8 Jared Smith < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>
> > On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 9:12 AM, Geof Collis < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > >
> > >Well it appears that I cant use it because it doesn't validate
> > >under xhtml 1.0 strict.
> >
> > ARIA roles are perfectly acceptable and valid. Just because some
> > validator tells you they're not valid doesn't mean they're not.
> >
> > I don't quite understand the criticism of something that has potential
> > to do more for keyboard accessibility than anything that's come along
> > in the last 10 years. "Skip" links are a hack. ARIA landmarks are a
> > solution (or will be once support gets better).
> >
> > Jared
> >
From: Geof Collis
Date: Thu, Oct 08 2009 10:00AM
Subject: Re: Role attribute
← Previous message | Next message →
Well if you've read my previous posts then you'll notice that I've
changed my mind, the amount of extra chatter is worth the price, but
for now and until it is widely supported I'll use both in future
sites and wont worry about validation.
cheers
Geof
>ARIA roles are perfectly acceptable and valid. Just because some
>validator tells you they're not valid doesn't mean they're not.
>
>I don't quite understand the criticism of something that has potential
>to do more for keyboard accessibility than anything that's come along
>in the last 10 years. "Skip" links are a hack. ARIA landmarks are a
>solution (or will be once support gets better).
>
>Jared
>
From: Wael
Date: Thu, Oct 08 2009 11:10AM
Subject: Re: Role attribute
← Previous message | Next message →
> In JAWS, INSERT+CTRL+SEMICOLON allows you to Select a Landmark; if you are
> using a desktop keyboard layout, but if you use a laptop keyboard layout
> in jaws, replace it with the capslock key, it sounds much easier than
> pressing insert control semi colon! Personally, I use the laptop keyboard
> layout even if i am using a desktop computer.
hth
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bevi Chagnon | PubCom" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
To: "'WebAIM Discussion List'" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 4:46 PM
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Role attribute
> Jared wrote:
>> In JAWS, INSERT+CTRL+SEMICOLON allows you to Select a Landmark.
>
> Wow. My laptop keyboard doesn't have an INSERT key. Thank goodness that I
> don't need to use it!
>
> --Bevi Chagnon
>
> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
> .
> . . .
> Bevi Chagnon | = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = | www.PubCom.com
> Government and non-profit publishing specialists for print, web,
> marketing,
> Acrobat, & 508
> PublishingDC Group Co-Moderator |
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PublishingDC
> Bevi blogs on Facebook |
> www.facebook.com/pages/Takoma-Park-MD/PubCom/139231069223
> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
> .
> . .
>
>
>
>
>
From: Mackenzie, Hamish
Date: Thu, Oct 08 2009 3:25PM
Subject: Re: Role attribute
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Hi Geof
The Jaws modifier, ctrl semi colon brings up a list of landmarks similar
to the various list of other elements Jaws can pull up so you can jump
straight to the one you want rather than by pressing the semi colon
however many times.
Regards
Hamish
From: Mackenzie, Hamish
Date: Thu, Oct 08 2009 3:30PM
Subject: Re: Role attribute
← Previous message | Next message →
Hi Geof
Using the laptop layout in Jaws even on a full kb makes this easier as
you can use caps lock ctrl and semi colon which should ease the finger
gymnastics :) The insert key on the num pad still works fine for other
Jaws keystrokes even if you are using a full kbb.
Cheers
Hamish
From: Geof Collis
Date: Thu, Oct 08 2009 4:30PM
Subject: Re: Role attribute
← Previous message | Next message →
Hi Hamish
Thanks, will check it out.
cheers
Geof
At 05:21 PM 10/8/2009, you wrote:
>Hi Geof
>
>The Jaws modifier, ctrl semi colon brings up a list of landmarks similar
>to the various list of other elements Jaws can pull up so you can jump
>straight to the one you want rather than by pressing the semi colon
>however many times.
>
>Regards
>
>Hamish
>
>
From: Geof Collis
Date: Thu, Oct 08 2009 4:45PM
Subject: Re: Role attribute
← Previous message | No next message
Thanks!
cheers
Geof
At 08:34 AM 10/8/2009, you wrote:
>It is part of the new Accessible Rich Internet Accessibility
>Specification of the W3C:
>
>Links:
>http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/
>http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-primer/
>
>Jon
>
>
>---- Original message ----
> >Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2009 08:31:05 -0400
> >From: Geof Collis < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> >Subject: [WebAIM] Role attribute
> >To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> >
> >Hi All
> >
> >Does anyone have any documentation on the "role" attribute? I've just
> >stepped out of the screen reader wilderness after 7 years, (JAWS4.5
> >and 6.0) into the present(JAWS 10.0) and for the first time I heard
> >the words "landmark " and I'm not sure why I need to hear this, as
> >if my ears aren't already bombarded by enough useless chatter I dont
> >need to hear, so any info on what it's use is would be appreciated.
> >
> >cheers
> >
> >Geof
> >
> >
> >
> >Editor
> >Accessibility News
> >www.accessibilitynews.ca
> >Accessibility News International
> >www.accessibilitynewsinternational.com
> >
> >
> >