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Number of posts in this thread: 9 (In chronological order)

From: Carin Headrick
Date: Sat, Nov 21 2009 8:40AM
Subject: alternate captcha ideas?
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Hi. I thought I'd put this question to you wonderful folk.

I came across the following article: http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10204300-1.html?tag=nl.e703

It's a captcha where you have to match objects with other objects. As you can see, not even WebVisum can handle such a thing. After some dancing fingers, I talked to Marcos Boyington, one of the creators of this thing. He felt bad, and then asked if I could offer him an alternative. I sure as heck couldn't, but I thought maybe one of you could think of something.

Any thoughts? If this takes off, it will spell all kinds of bad times.

Carin

From: Simius Puer
Date: Sat, Nov 21 2009 10:00AM
Subject: Re: alternate captcha ideas?
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Hi Carin

All CAPTCHA solutions have problems regarding accessibility and this has
been discussed on various threads of this forum:

http://www.webaim.org/discussion/mail_thread.php?thread=3945
http://www.webaim.org/discussion/mail_thread.php?thread=3061 (and probably
more)

and there are good solutions on the main site:

http://webaim.org/blog/spam_free_accessible_forms/

...this spells out real alternatives to CAPTCHA - ones that meet both
usability and accessibility requirements, not to mention business
requirements of security and a low form-abandonment rate.

CAPTCHA does have it's place, but there are much better solutions that don't
put any burden on the user whilst maintaining security.

From: Carin Headrick
Date: Sat, Nov 21 2009 10:20AM
Subject: Re: alternate captcha ideas?
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Sweet! Looks like I have some reading to do. I'm just getting to know all the goodness that resides on your site, so sorry for bringing up an old topic.

Carin
----- Original Message -----
From: Simius Puer
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 11:58 AM
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] alternate captcha ideas?


Hi Carin

All CAPTCHA solutions have problems regarding accessibility and this has
been discussed on various threads of this forum:

http://www.webaim.org/discussion/mail_thread.php?thread=3945
http://www.webaim.org/discussion/mail_thread.php?thread=3061 (and probably
more)

and there are good solutions on the main site:

http://webaim.org/blog/spam_free_accessible_forms/

...this spells out real alternatives to CAPTCHA - ones that meet both
usability and accessibility requirements, not to mention business
requirements of security and a low form-abandonment rate.

CAPTCHA does have it's place, but there are much better solutions that don't
put any burden on the user whilst maintaining security.

From: Simius Puer
Date: Sat, Nov 21 2009 11:30AM
Subject: Re: alternate captcha ideas?
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No problems and it's not my site ...if only lol ;) There is a lot of good
information on WebAIM

My site is listed below and there is one article on there regarding CAPTCHAs
if you would like a look:
http://www.simiusweb.ie/news/2009_07_07_form_spam_prevention.htm

From: Stephan Wehner
Date: Sat, Nov 21 2009 11:40AM
Subject: Re: alternate captcha ideas?
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On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 8:58 AM, Simius Puer < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Hi Carin
>
> All CAPTCHA solutions have problems regarding accessibility and this has
> been discussed on various threads of this forum:
>
> http://www.webaim.org/discussion/mail_thread.php?thread=3945
> http://www.webaim.org/discussion/mail_thread.php?thread=3061 (and probably
> more)
>
> and there are good solutions on the main site:
>
> http://webaim.org/blog/spam_free_accessible_forms/
>
> ...this spells out real alternatives to CAPTCHA - ones that meet both
> usability and accessibility requirements, not to mention business
> requirements of security and a low form-abandonment rate.

Not quite where "spammers [may] target forms specifically". Quote from
that page:

"Disclaimer 1: These spam prevention techniques may not work for
enterprise level application where spammers may target forms
specifically. They are intended for generic contact, comment, or
registration forms where a spammer is less likely to take the time to
try and bypass your specific spam prevention mechanisms."

(http://webaim.org/blog/spam_free_accessible_forms)

Stephan

> CAPTCHA does have it's place, but there are much better solutions that don't
> put any burden on the user whilst maintaining security.
>
>

From: ckrugman
Date: Sat, Nov 21 2009 4:45PM
Subject: Re: alternate captcha ideas?
← Previous message | Next message →

Being that the issue is still far from successfully resolved it is far from
an old topic.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carin Headrick" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
To: "WebAIM Discussion List" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 9:20 AM
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] alternate captcha ideas?


> Sweet! Looks like I have some reading to do. I'm just getting to know all
> the goodness that resides on your site, so sorry for bringing up an old
> topic.
>
> Carin
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Simius Puer
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 11:58 AM
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] alternate captcha ideas?
>
>
> Hi Carin
>
> All CAPTCHA solutions have problems regarding accessibility and this has
> been discussed on various threads of this forum:
>
> http://www.webaim.org/discussion/mail_thread.php?thread=3945
> http://www.webaim.org/discussion/mail_thread.php?thread=3061 (and probably
> more)
>
> and there are good solutions on the main site:
>
> http://webaim.org/blog/spam_free_accessible_forms/
>
> ...this spells out real alternatives to CAPTCHA - ones that meet both
> usability and accessibility requirements, not to mention business
> requirements of security and a low form-abandonment rate.
>
> CAPTCHA does have it's place, but there are much better solutions that
> don't
> put any burden on the user whilst maintaining security.
>
>

From: Birkir Gunnarsson
Date: Sat, Nov 21 2009 6:05PM
Subject: Re: alternate captcha ideas?
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I appologize if this is mentioned in one of the links presented in a
response to this post. I assume so but don't hve time to check those links
till later.
But one solution that is very comfortable, to me as a user, is to pose a
verbal problem the user has to respond to such as "what do you get if you
add five to three", of course I realize this is firstly reliant on the fact
the user speaks English (but if this is on an English language web site that
should be fine, if not the question could be stated in the relevant
language) and secondly one could write code to circumvent this to some
degree by figuring out all possible word and number combinations, however
one could also write ocr software to figure out texts in a picture or sound
file, so I think this strike a good balance, at least for a web site whre
security is not absolutely vital and does not keep highly personal or
financial information about the user.
I know there is a company that provides these solutions directly, or
relevant software, and I can track it down if desired.
Again, apologies if this has already been mentioned.
-B

From: ckrugman
Date: Sat, Nov 21 2009 6:50PM
Subject: Re: alternate captcha ideas?
← Previous message | Next message →

I have encountered some sites where the problem is presented in actual text
and not an image or distorted image and this works well. The main issue with
captcha is the presentation in an image that is not readable with screen
reading software. While Webvisum works sometimes I have found it to be
inconsistent and as I use it infrequently I found it hard to find commands
and instructions on that particular site that were user friendly i.e. in a
place that was readily accessible.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Birkir Gunnarsson" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
To: "'WebAIM Discussion List'" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] alternate captcha ideas?


>I appologize if this is mentioned in one of the links presented in a
> response to this post. I assume so but don't hve time to check those links
> till later.
> But one solution that is very comfortable, to me as a user, is to pose a
> verbal problem the user has to respond to such as "what do you get if you
> add five to three", of course I realize this is firstly reliant on the
> fact
> the user speaks English (but if this is on an English language web site
> that
> should be fine, if not the question could be stated in the relevant
> language) and secondly one could write code to circumvent this to some
> degree by figuring out all possible word and number combinations, however
> one could also write ocr software to figure out texts in a picture or
> sound
> file, so I think this strike a good balance, at least for a web site whre
> security is not absolutely vital and does not keep highly personal or
> financial information about the user.
> I know there is a company that provides these solutions directly, or
> relevant software, and I can track it down if desired.
> Again, apologies if this has already been mentioned.
> -B
>
>

From: Carin Headrick
Date: Sat, Nov 21 2009 9:05PM
Subject: Re: alternate captcha ideas?
← Previous message | No next message

Hmmm. I found that once you had the program installed, control f1 would get you everything you needed to know. Right clicking and selecting solve captcha was all that was required.

Yeah, every time I present the verbal problem thing, I get told it's too easy for bots to figure out all the combinations and permutations. It does sound like a good solution though.

Carin
----- Original Message -----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 8:47 PM
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] alternate captcha ideas?


I have encountered some sites where the problem is presented in actual text
and not an image or distorted image and this works well. The main issue with
captcha is the presentation in an image that is not readable with screen
reading software. While Webvisum works sometimes I have found it to be
inconsistent and as I use it infrequently I found it hard to find commands
and instructions on that particular site that were user friendly i.e. in a
place that was readily accessible.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Birkir Gunnarsson" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
To: "'WebAIM Discussion List'" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] alternate captcha ideas?


>I appologize if this is mentioned in one of the links presented in a
> response to this post. I assume so but don't hve time to check those links
> till later.
> But one solution that is very comfortable, to me as a user, is to pose a
> verbal problem the user has to respond to such as "what do you get if you
> add five to three", of course I realize this is firstly reliant on the
> fact
> the user speaks English (but if this is on an English language web site
> that
> should be fine, if not the question could be stated in the relevant
> language) and secondly one could write code to circumvent this to some
> degree by figuring out all possible word and number combinations, however
> one could also write ocr software to figure out texts in a picture or
> sound
> file, so I think this strike a good balance, at least for a web site whre
> security is not absolutely vital and does not keep highly personal or
> financial information about the user.
> I know there is a company that provides these solutions directly, or
> relevant software, and I can track it down if desired.
> Again, apologies if this has already been mentioned.
> -B
>
>