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Number of posts in this thread: 16 (In chronological order)

From: Steve Flaukner
Date: Wed, Feb 08 2012 9:18AM
Subject: Max amount of h1 tags
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Per WCAG it states a max of 2 h1's per page. What harm is there if you use
more that 2 per page? Meaning what effects does this have on end user
technology?

From: Angela French
Date: Wed, Feb 08 2012 9:30AM
Subject: Re: Max amount of h1 tags
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My own personal opinion is this: there should be one primary topic per web page. This primary topic is reflected in the h1. The rest of the content on the page are subsets of that content, thus h2, h3, etc. I feel that if another h1 is desired, then it is probably a separate subject and should be relegated to a separate page. To me it is more a matter of proper semantics and ensures a good understanding of the page structure for all users, regardless of technology used.
Angela French

>Per WCAG it states a max of 2 h1's per page. What harm is there if you use
>more that 2 per page? Meaning what effects does this have on end user
>technology?
>

From: David Ashleydale
Date: Wed, Feb 08 2012 9:42AM
Subject: Re: Max amount of h1 tags
← Previous message | Next message →

"What harm is there if you use more that 2 per page? Meaning what effects
does this have on end user technology?"

It might be confusing to users. If I were on a page and I had already heard
an H1 and came across another one, I might think that I had accidentally
gone to another page.

David

From: Rick Hill
Date: Wed, Feb 08 2012 9:48AM
Subject: Re: Max amount of h1 tags
← Previous message | Next message →

Not that I'm in disagreement with minimizing h1 on a page to minimize confusion … however, I don't see that WCAG specifies only 1 or two or any number of max H1's on a page. And of course, when using HTML5 (me, I'm still using XHTML), it is possible to have several sets of heading hierarchies using sections, although the current status of assistive browsers may not well support that.

–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
Rick

From: David Ashleydale < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >>
Reply-To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >>
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 08:40:40 -0800
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >>
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Max amount of h1 tags

"What harm is there if you use more that 2 per page? Meaning what effects
does this have on end user technology?"

It might be confusing to users. If I were on a page and I had already heard
an H1 and came across another one, I might think that I had accidentally
gone to another page.

David

From: Jared Smith
Date: Wed, Feb 08 2012 9:54AM
Subject: Re: Max amount of h1 tags
← Previous message | Next message →

On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 9:18 AM, Steve Flaukner < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Per WCAG it states a max of 2 h1's per page.

Where does WCAG state this? I've never seen this in the guidelines or
supporting materials.

Jared

From: Steve Flaukner
Date: Wed, Feb 08 2012 10:12AM
Subject: Re: Max amount of h1 tags
← Previous message | Next message →

OK on FAE. I came across a page that has 8 h1's. FAE kicked back but could
find nothing in WCAG.
On Feb 8, 2012 12:07 PM, "Jared Smith" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 10:00 AM, Steve Flaukner wrote:
> > I should of typed FAE.
>
> You should be very careful with many of the recommendations of FAE.
> They often have little to do with guidelines and more to do with
> personal interpretations and opinions. This is one of many case where
> the tool is suggesting a failure or issue where there isn't one.
>
> Having one <h1> at the beginning of the main content is usually a good
> idea for most pages, but it certainly is not a conformance failure to
> do otherwise.
>
> Jared
>

From: Steve Flaukner
Date: Wed, Feb 08 2012 10:24AM
Subject: Re: Max amount of h1 tags
← Previous message | Next message →

I buy that. In my case its the miss-use of headers or lack of. Thank you
for the input.
On Feb 8, 2012 12:22 PM, "Birkir R. Gunnarsson" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
wrote:

> As a user I think it would not be wise to specify a maximum number of
> h1s on a page.
> In many cases a web page has one main content (article, news story
> etc), for that a single h1 is appropriate (barring that, an ARIA main
> tag before the story).
> But not web pages are built around a single item of information.
> I just reviewed a web page that displays the program of 3 channels of
> a radio station.
> Each of these is marked up with an h1 with the name of the channel,
> followed by the program for that particular channel.
> In this case 3 h1s seems to me, like the most logical solution, as you
> do not know what channel the user is interested in, and they are
> equally important.
> Neither does there seem to be an item on the page thatis more
> important than these 3 sections, so making that an h1 and the sections
> an h2 does not really make sense either.
> I've seen quite a few pages that start with an h1 at the top stating
> the name of the website or some such. That, in my opinion, is a
> complete waste of the h1 tag, at least as far as A.T. is concerned.
> I think careful evaluation of the individual web page and consistency
> between sub pages of a website are the most important accessibility
> concerns as far as heading structure is concerned, not the number of
> headings of a certain level.
> Cheers
> -B
>
> On 2/8/12, Steve Flaukner < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > OK on FAE. I came across a page that has 8 h1's. FAE kicked back but
> could
> > find nothing in WCAG.
> > On Feb 8, 2012 12:07 PM, "Jared Smith" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 10:00 AM, Steve Flaukner wrote:
> >> > I should of typed FAE.
> >>
> >> You should be very careful with many of the recommendations of FAE.
> >> They often have little to do with guidelines and more to do with
> >> personal interpretations and opinions. This is one of many case where
> >> the tool is suggesting a failure or issue where there isn't one.
> >>
> >> Having one <h1> at the beginning of the main content is usually a good
> >> idea for most pages, but it certainly is not a conformance failure to
> >> do otherwise.
> >>
> >> Jared
> >>

From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Wed, Feb 08 2012 10:30AM
Subject: Re: Max amount of h1 tags
← Previous message | Next message →

As a user I think it would not be wise to specify a maximum number of
h1s on a page.
In many cases a web page has one main content (article, news story
etc), for that a single h1 is appropriate (barring that, an ARIA main
tag before the story).
But not web pages are built around a single item of information.
I just reviewed a web page that displays the program of 3 channels of
a radio station.
Each of these is marked up with an h1 with the name of the channel,
followed by the program for that particular channel.
In this case 3 h1s seems to me, like the most logical solution, as you
do not know what channel the user is interested in, and they are
equally important.
Neither does there seem to be an item on the page thatis more
important than these 3 sections, so making that an h1 and the sections
an h2 does not really make sense either.
I've seen quite a few pages that start with an h1 at the top stating
the name of the website or some such. That, in my opinion, is a
complete waste of the h1 tag, at least as far as A.T. is concerned.
I think careful evaluation of the individual web page and consistency
between sub pages of a website are the most important accessibility
concerns as far as heading structure is concerned, not the number of
headings of a certain level.
Cheers
-B

On 2/8/12, Steve Flaukner < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> OK on FAE. I came across a page that has 8 h1's. FAE kicked back but could
> find nothing in WCAG.
> On Feb 8, 2012 12:07 PM, "Jared Smith" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 10:00 AM, Steve Flaukner wrote:
>> > I should of typed FAE.
>>
>> You should be very careful with many of the recommendations of FAE.
>> They often have little to do with guidelines and more to do with
>> personal interpretations and opinions. This is one of many case where
>> the tool is suggesting a failure or issue where there isn't one.
>>
>> Having one <h1> at the beginning of the main content is usually a good
>> idea for most pages, but it certainly is not a conformance failure to
>> do otherwise.
>>
>> Jared
>>

From: Jared Smith
Date: Wed, Feb 08 2012 10:48AM
Subject: Re: Max amount of h1 tags
← Previous message | Next message →

On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 10:00 AM, Steve Flaukner wrote:
> I should of typed FAE.

You should be very careful with many of the recommendations of FAE.
They often have little to do with guidelines and more to do with
personal interpretations and opinions. This is one of many case where
the tool is suggesting a failure or issue where there isn't one.

Having one <h1> at the beginning of the main content is usually a good
idea for most pages, but it certainly is not a conformance failure to
do otherwise.

Jared

From: Steve Flaukner
Date: Wed, Feb 08 2012 12:24PM
Subject: Re: Max amount of h1 tags
← Previous message | Next message →

I should of typed FAE. Not WCAG! my error! Keep the pitchforks aside:)
On Feb 8, 2012 11:52 AM, "Rick Hill" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> Not that I'm in disagreement with minimizing h1 on a page to minimize
> confusion … however, I don't see that WCAG specifies only 1 or two or any
> number of max H1's on a page. And of course, when using HTML5 (me, I'm
> still using XHTML), it is possible to have several sets of heading
> hierarchies using sections, although the current status of assistive
> browsers may not well support that.
>
> –––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
> Rick
>
> From: David Ashleydale < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >>
> Reply-To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto:
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >>
> Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 08:40:40 -0800
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto:
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >>
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Max amount of h1 tags
>
> "What harm is there if you use more that 2 per page? Meaning what effects
> does this have on end user technology?"
>
> It might be confusing to users. If I were on a page and I had already heard
> an H1 and came across another one, I might think that I had accidentally
> gone to another page.
>
> David
>

From: Will Grignon
Date: Wed, Feb 08 2012 6:42PM
Subject: Re: Max amount of h1 tags
← Previous message | Next message →

As a JAWS user, I'm happier when a page has headings (no matter at what
level) at key points on the page. Frankly, I think the notion of "nesting"
headings in hierarchies of levels is overblown. Most screen reader users
can quickly figure out the relative importance of a headed element - and
running down each hierarchy tree to pass an H5 in order to find the next H2
is somewhat cumbersome. The biggest issue with headings is actually using
them to mark key places on a webpage.

From: Ryan E. Benson
Date: Wed, Feb 08 2012 8:18PM
Subject: Re: Max amount of h1 tags
← Previous message | Next message →

I think that there should be two h1's per page. The first one is for
the the logo or something like that. I think that headings should not
be changed depending on the page. People may argue that pages after
the homepage do not need the logo area be marked up as h1. However
when you are doing research, do you enter via the home page then go
on? A lot of the time, the answer is no. The second h1 is for the
article/post title.

I think HTML5 absolutely throws this out the window, with the article
and hgroup tags. Things that I have read about article tag say an h1
should follow the opening tag, unless the article tag is nested within
another article. The hgroup tag is equally as bad in my opinion. This
encourages using h2-h6 for subtitles, and tag lines for companies. I
think tag lines should either be wrapped in the h1 or it's own
span/div. Giving the subtitles a stand alone heading, presents a
heading that goes basically no where.

--
Ryan E. Benson



On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 12:22 PM, Birkir R. Gunnarsson
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> As a user I think it would not be wise to specify a maximum number of
> h1s on a page.
> In many cases a web page has one main content (article, news story
> etc), for that a single h1 is appropriate (barring that, an ARIA main
> tag before the story).
> But not web pages are built around a single item of information.
> I just reviewed a web page that displays the program of 3 channels of
> a radio station.
> Each of these is marked up with an h1 with the name of the channel,
> followed by the program for that particular channel.
> In this case 3 h1s seems to me, like the most logical solution, as you
> do not know what channel the user is interested in, and they are
> equally important.
> Neither does there seem to be an item on the page thatis more
> important than these 3 sections, so making that an h1 and the sections
> an h2 does not really make sense either.
> I've seen quite a few pages that start with an h1 at the top stating
> the name of the website or some such. That, in my opinion, is a
> complete waste of the h1 tag, at least as far as A.T. is concerned.
> I think careful evaluation of the individual web page and consistency
> between sub pages of a website are the most important accessibility
> concerns as far as heading structure is concerned, not the number of
> headings of a certain level.
> Cheers
> -B
>
> On 2/8/12, Steve Flaukner < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>> OK on FAE. I came across a page that has 8 h1's. FAE kicked back but could
>> find nothing in WCAG.
>> On Feb 8, 2012 12:07 PM, "Jared Smith" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 10:00 AM, Steve Flaukner wrote:
>>> > I should of typed FAE.
>>>
>>> You should be very careful with many of the recommendations of FAE.
>>> They often have little to do with guidelines and more to do with
>>> personal interpretations and opinions. This is one of many case where
>>> the tool is suggesting a failure or issue where there isn't one.
>>>
>>> Having one <h1> at the beginning of the main content is usually a good
>>> idea for most pages, but it certainly is not a conformance failure to
>>> do otherwise.
>>>
>>> Jared
>>>

From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Thu, Feb 09 2012 3:12AM
Subject: Re: Max amount of h1 tags
← Previous message | Next message →

Just curious why you want to put the logo of a company in an h1 heading.
Just speaking for myself, I've never found any use in being able to
track down the company logo, nor does it have any information of any
importance for me.
I know whose company's website I enterred, and I am generally not
looking for its logo.
I have suggested using the banner landmark to mark it, or keep it on
top of the page (in code order) but not do anything with it beyond
that. I am much happier with a single h1 heading on a page that
clearly points to main content, if the page is structured that way.

Besides, as I pointed out in an earlier post, not all web pages will
be built around a single main focus or article. There are plenty of
sites that present different types of information with, perhaps,
several equally important page sections.
Say I logged in to my online bank, do I want to look at my accounts,
my credit cards, my online bills, my reward points. (well, frankly the
accounts and bills sections I generally want to skip over *grin*). It
seems to be somewhat arbitrary if someone decided one of these was the
"main" section on the page.
I believe there is an argument for making all of these an h1
heading,or create an h1 heading above the first one,and making all of
them h2 headings. I think either has merits, though I prefer the first
one, as it allows me to quickly cycle through the page, rather than
first having to locate the h1 heading and then use the h2 headings to
get to my section (admittedly not a big difference).


I think the type of information presented in webpages is not uniform
enough to require a uniform headings structure for those pages, as
much as a consistent universal way to apply an html structure would
aide in user training.
This is just my opinion of course, I am not claiming to be "righter"
than you, just presenting an alternative point of view, and perhaps a
point of view that is too screen reader specific at that.
-B

On 2/9/12, Ryan E. Benson < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> I think that there should be two h1's per page. The first one is for
> the the logo or something like that. I think that headings should not
> be changed depending on the page. People may argue that pages after
> the homepage do not need the logo area be marked up as h1. However
> when you are doing research, do you enter via the home page then go
> on? A lot of the time, the answer is no. The second h1 is for the
> article/post title.
>
> I think HTML5 absolutely throws this out the window, with the article
> and hgroup tags. Things that I have read about article tag say an h1
> should follow the opening tag, unless the article tag is nested within
> another article. The hgroup tag is equally as bad in my opinion. This
> encourages using h2-h6 for subtitles, and tag lines for companies. I
> think tag lines should either be wrapped in the h1 or it's own
> span/div. Giving the subtitles a stand alone heading, presents a
> heading that goes basically no where.
>
> --
> Ryan E. Benson
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 12:22 PM, Birkir R. Gunnarsson
> < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>> As a user I think it would not be wise to specify a maximum number of
>> h1s on a page.
>> In many cases a web page has one main content (article, news story
>> etc), for that a single h1 is appropriate (barring that, an ARIA main
>> tag before the story).
>> But not web pages are built around a single item of information.
>> I just reviewed a web page that displays the program of 3 channels of
>> a radio station.
>> Each of these is marked up with an h1 with the name of the channel,
>> followed by the program for that particular channel.
>> In this case 3 h1s seems to me, like the most logical solution, as you
>> do not know what channel the user is interested in, and they are
>> equally important.
>> Neither does there seem to be an item on the page thatis more
>> important than these 3 sections, so making that an h1 and the sections
>> an h2 does not really make sense either.
>> I've seen quite a few pages that start with an h1 at the top stating
>> the name of the website or some such. That, in my opinion, is a
>> complete waste of the h1 tag, at least as far as A.T. is concerned.
>> I think careful evaluation of the individual web page and consistency
>> between sub pages of a website are the most important accessibility
>> concerns as far as heading structure is concerned, not the number of
>> headings of a certain level.
>> Cheers
>> -B
>>
>> On 2/8/12, Steve Flaukner < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>>> OK on FAE. I came across a page that has 8 h1's. FAE kicked back but
>>> could
>>> find nothing in WCAG.
>>> On Feb 8, 2012 12:07 PM, "Jared Smith" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 10:00 AM, Steve Flaukner wrote:
>>>> > I should of typed FAE.
>>>>
>>>> You should be very careful with many of the recommendations of FAE.
>>>> They often have little to do with guidelines and more to do with
>>>> personal interpretations and opinions. This is one of many case where
>>>> the tool is suggesting a failure or issue where there isn't one.
>>>>
>>>> Having one <h1> at the beginning of the main content is usually a good
>>>> idea for most pages, but it certainly is not a conformance failure to
>>>> do otherwise.
>>>>
>>>> Jared
>>>>

From: Ryan E. Benson
Date: Sat, Feb 11 2012 5:03PM
Subject: Re: Max amount of h1 tags
← Previous message | Next message →

Birkir,

> Just curious why you want to put the logo of a company in an h1 heading.
I am the type of guy that says headings should be used to give an
hierarchy of a page. Saying a site title/logo is an h1, it gives you
that foundation. An example of a movie that shows the title after 3-5
minutes of opening scenes, then finally the title. If you are just
flipping channels and you can't figure if you have seen it, sitting
there for 5 minutes would be annoying. (I couldn't think of a
non-visual example off hand.) H2's would then flow down to blog
post/article headings, and if you have labeled parts of the side bar.
For example, the word archives would be an h2, then links to the
posts for that month.

> I have suggested using the banner landmark to mark it, or keep it on
> top of the page (in code order) but not do anything with it beyond
> that.
That works. I got my view prior to ARIA.

> I think the type of information presented in webpages is not uniform
> enough to require a uniform headings structure for those pages, as
> much as a consistent universal way to apply an html structure would
> aide in user training.
I try to look at the whole picture and have things flow down.

--
Ryan E. Benson



On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 5:14 AM, Birkir R. Gunnarsson
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Just curious why you want to put the logo of a company in an h1 heading.
> Just speaking for myself, I've never found any use in being able to
> track down the company logo, nor does it have any information of any
> importance for me.
> I know whose company's website I enterred, and I am generally not
> looking for its logo.
> I have suggested using the banner landmark to mark it, or keep it on
> top of the page (in code order) but not do anything with it beyond
> that. I am much happier with a single h1 heading on a page that
> clearly points to main content, if the page is structured that way.
>
> Besides, as I pointed out in an earlier post, not all web pages will
> be built around a single main focus or article. There are plenty of
> sites that present different types of information with, perhaps,
> several equally important page sections.
> Say I logged in to my online bank, do I want to look at my accounts,
> my credit cards, my online bills, my reward points. (well, frankly the
> accounts and bills sections I generally want to skip over *grin*). It
> seems to be somewhat arbitrary if someone decided one of these was the
> "main" section on the page.
> I believe there is an argument for making all of these an h1
> heading,or create an h1 heading above the first one,and making all of
> them h2 headings. I think either has merits, though I prefer the first
> one, as it allows me to quickly cycle through the page, rather than
> first having to locate the h1 heading and then use the h2 headings to
> get to my section (admittedly not a big difference).
>
>
> I think the type of information presented in webpages is not uniform
> enough to require a uniform headings structure for those pages, as
> much as a consistent universal way to apply an html structure would
> aide in user training.
> This is just my opinion of course, I am not claiming to be "righter"
> than you, just presenting an alternative point of view, and perhaps a
> point of view that is too screen reader specific at that.
> -B
>
> On 2/9/12, Ryan E. Benson < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>> I think that there should be two h1's per page. The first one is for
>> the the logo or something like that. I think that headings should not
>> be changed depending on the page. People may argue that pages after
>> the homepage do not need the logo area be marked up as h1. However
>> when you are doing research, do you enter via the home page then go
>> on? A lot of the time, the answer is no. The second h1 is for the
>> article/post title.
>>
>> I think HTML5 absolutely throws this out the window, with the article
>> and hgroup tags. Things that I have read about article tag say an h1
>> should follow the opening tag, unless the article tag is nested within
>> another article. The hgroup tag is equally as bad in my opinion. This
>> encourages using h2-h6 for subtitles, and tag lines for companies. I
>> think tag lines should either be wrapped in the h1 or it's own
>> span/div. Giving the subtitles a stand alone heading, presents a
>> heading that goes basically no where.
>>
>> --
>> Ryan E. Benson
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 12:22 PM, Birkir R. Gunnarsson
>> < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>>> As a user I think it would not be wise to specify a maximum number of
>>> h1s on a page.
>>> In many cases a web page has one main content (article, news story
>>> etc), for that a single h1 is appropriate (barring that, an ARIA main
>>> tag before the story).
>>> But not web pages are built around a single item of information.
>>> I just reviewed a web page that displays the program of 3 channels of
>>> a radio station.
>>> Each of these is marked up with an h1 with the name of the channel,
>>> followed by the program for that particular channel.
>>> In this case 3 h1s seems to me, like the most logical solution, as you
>>> do not know what channel the user is interested in, and they are
>>> equally important.
>>> Neither does there seem to be an item on the page thatis more
>>> important than these 3 sections, so making that an h1 and the sections
>>> an h2 does not really make sense either.
>>> I've seen quite a few pages that start with an h1 at the top stating
>>> the name of the website or some such. That, in my opinion, is a
>>> complete waste of the h1 tag, at least as far as A.T. is concerned.
>>> I think careful evaluation of the individual web page and consistency
>>> between sub pages of a website are the most important accessibility
>>> concerns as far as heading structure is concerned, not the number of
>>> headings of a certain level.
>>> Cheers
>>> -B
>>>
>>> On 2/8/12, Steve Flaukner < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>>>> OK on FAE. I came across a page that has 8 h1's. FAE kicked back but
>>>> could
>>>> find nothing in WCAG.
>>>> On Feb 8, 2012 12:07 PM, "Jared Smith" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 10:00 AM, Steve Flaukner wrote:
>>>>> > I should of typed FAE.
>>>>>
>>>>> You should be very careful with many of the recommendations of FAE.
>>>>> They often have little to do with guidelines and more to do with
>>>>> personal interpretations and opinions. This is one of many case where
>>>>> the tool is suggesting a failure or issue where there isn't one.
>>>>>
>>>>> Having one <h1> at the beginning of the main content is usually a good
>>>>> idea for most pages, but it certainly is not a conformance failure to
>>>>> do otherwise.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jared
>>>>>

From: Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
Date: Sun, Feb 12 2012 1:42AM
Subject: Re: Max amount of h1 tags
← Previous message | Next message →

On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 10:14 AM, Birkir R. Gunnarsson
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Just curious why you want to put the logo of a company in an h1 heading.

Makes sense for the name of the company to be the main heading on its homepage.

> Besides, as I pointed out in an earlier post, not all web pages will
> be built around a single main focus or article. There are plenty of
> sites that present different types of information with, perhaps,
> several equally important page sections.
> Say I logged in to my online bank, do I want to look at my accounts,
> my credit cards, my online bills, my reward points. (well, frankly the
> accounts and bills sections I generally want to skip over *grin*). It
> seems to be somewhat arbitrary if someone decided one of these was the
> "main" section on the page.

Yes, but it would be reasonable to have an overarching heading for all of them.

> I believe there is an argument for making all of these an h1
> heading,or create an h1 heading above the first one,and making all of
> them h2 headings. I think either has merits, though I prefer the first
> one, as it allows me to quickly cycle through the page, rather than
> first having to locate the h1 heading and then use the h2 headings to
> get to my section (admittedly not a big difference).

Your AT doesn't let you skip directly to the first h2? In both JAWS
and NVDA you should be able to press "h" to jump between headings
irrespective of level, or press "2" to jump between h2 elements only.

--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis

From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Sun, Feb 12 2012 8:48AM
Subject: Re: Max amount of h1 tags
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Hi

Ryan, thanks for the clarification on this.
It is hard to see how "headings make sense" unless you actually see
the set up of the headings on the page, so I think I personally tend
to think of the page too non-visually if you will.
I see your point in trying to make the h tag structure reflect the
visual layout. It could also be argued though that the title of the
page itself reflects better a title of a movie, per the analogy, and
the banner landmark is another option. Though there's nothing wrong
with your suggestion either.

Ben, I believe neither Jaws nor NVDA will look past a heading of a
higher level on a page.
For instance, if you go to
http://www.bbcnews.com
there is first an h1 for news, then an h4 and after that an h2.
If you try to press 2 or 4 when at the top of the page, Jaws will say
"no next heading at level 4/2 in section".
It is only once you press 1 to jump to the first level 1 heading that
you can use 4 or 2 to find the subsequent headings.
Similarly, there is an h3 well down the page preceeded by a lot of
h2s. You can't see the h3 (U.S. and the Americas).
So if I wanted to jum pstraight to news of the U.S. I actually can't
use "3" but instead have to jump from heading to heading to get there,
about 15 to 20 key presses.
If there was another h1 heading called "country news" or some such
before that section I could jump there in 2 key presses.
For this particular page the heading structure is not particularly
screen reader friendly, not if you want to get to items far down the
page.
The other problem with using an h1 heading on top of the page, on a
logo, is that screen reader users who are not aware of this and try to
jump to heading of any higher level will instantly get the "no next
heading at that level" announcement and be under the impression that
there are no other headings on this page.
Of course one could argue this is more of a screen reader
implementation or user training problem, and that, perhaps, anyone
savvy enough to navigate by headings is aware of this.
Cheers
-B

On 2/12/12, Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 10:14 AM, Birkir R. Gunnarsson
> < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>> Just curious why you want to put the logo of a company in an h1 heading.
>
> Makes sense for the name of the company to be the main heading on its
> homepage.
>
>> Besides, as I pointed out in an earlier post, not all web pages will
>> be built around a single main focus or article. There are plenty of
>> sites that present different types of information with, perhaps,
>> several equally important page sections.
>> Say I logged in to my online bank, do I want to look at my accounts,
>> my credit cards, my online bills, my reward points. (well, frankly the
>> accounts and bills sections I generally want to skip over *grin*). It
>> seems to be somewhat arbitrary if someone decided one of these was the
>> "main" section on the page.
>
> Yes, but it would be reasonable to have an overarching heading for all of
> them.
>
>> I believe there is an argument for making all of these an h1
>> heading,or create an h1 heading above the first one,and making all of
>> them h2 headings. I think either has merits, though I prefer the first
>> one, as it allows me to quickly cycle through the page, rather than
>> first having to locate the h1 heading and then use the h2 headings to
>> get to my section (admittedly not a big difference).
>
> Your AT doesn't let you skip directly to the first h2? In both JAWS
> and NVDA you should be able to press "h" to jump between headings
> irrespective of level, or press "2" to jump between h2 elements only.
>
> --
> Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
>