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Thread: "Data Table" Definition
Number of posts in this thread: 8 (In chronological order)
From: David Ashleydale
Date: Tue, Apr 09 2013 5:53PM
Subject: "Data Table" Definition
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Hi,
I'm going back and forth with some people about what is and is not
appropriate to put into a data table and I was wondering if there's a good
working definition of a "data table" out there.
A particular example I've been looking at is a 2 x 2 table with column
headers and no row headers. The first column header says, "WCAG" and the
second column header says, "ADA". The one data cell under WCAG has a
definition of what it stands for and a sentence or two about how it's used.
The one data cell under ADA also has a definition of what it stands for and
a sentence or two about how it's used.
Even though each of the data cells can be said to relate to its header, I
don't think this is a proper use of a data table. This information could
just as easily have been presented using a heading followed by
a paragraph of text. But my contention is that the author chose to use a
table for design just to make it line up in boxes. That could be achieved
using divs with borders -- I just don't think our data table component
should be used for that.
I was just wondering if any of you have seen a working definition of "data
table" that I could point people to when they are having a difficult time
deciding whether the information they have would appropriately fit into a
data table format.
I realize that this isn't a "showstopper" type of issue and that even
non-tabular information put into a table is not going to stop anyone from
being able to get to the information, but having a definition of "data
table" would keep the even worse examples from happening.
Thanks!
David Ashleydale
From: Lucy Greco
Date: Tue, Apr 09 2013 6:01PM
Subject: Re: "Data Table" Definition
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Hello:
I agree with you that that should be played out with css.
Maybe it would help them to think about the screen reader experience of a
user with their settings set to beginner. Do they really want the person
to here table with 2 columns and two rose for information like this.
However make sure that the screen reader does read through the information
problem. If this was left like this in a table and I navigate by element I
would here
Add w3c and then the definitions so you will have to make sure the screen
reader gets the title definition title definition. The more I think about
this the table is just all round a bad idea Lucy
Lucia Greco
Web Access Analyst
IST-Campus Technology Services
University of California, Berkeley
(510) 289-6008 skype: lucia1-greco
http://webaccess.berkeley.edu
Follow me on twitter @accessaces
From: Len Burns
Date: Tue, Apr 09 2013 6:47PM
Subject: Re: "Data Table" Definition
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It is interesting, I had trouble finding a concise definition, but here is a
good page explaining some of the perils of the improper use of layout
tables.
Failure of Success Criterion 1.3.2 due to using an HTML layout
table that
does not make sense when linearized | Techniques for WCAG 2.0
http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/F49.html
-Len
From: Sailesh Panchang
Date: Tue, Apr 09 2013 8:45PM
Subject: Re: "Data Table" Definition
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What would you think about a calendar table with 7 columns and 6 rows
and cells in row#1 (days of week Mon, Tue, etc.) marked up as TH
scope=col?
There can be tables with no row headers.
The 2x2 table (with WCAG and ADA) could also be say a table with 3
or 6 columns and just one row below it.
If col headers are marked up as TH one could read across the data row
comparing the text and have col headers announced if they are marked
up alright.
One could use dl-dt-dd to present data of the relationship label-> data, too.
It is the author's prerogative.
Only requirement is for suitable accessibility markup to be in place.
And there can be tables with only row headers and no col headers.
In a data table, there are rows or columns of data that bear some
relationship to data in adjacent cells / cells above or below.
Basically a table has records or rows of data.
Sailesh Panchang
www.deque.com
On 4/9/13, Len Burns < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> It is interesting, I had trouble finding a concise definition, but here is
> a
> good page explaining some of the perils of the improper use of layout
> tables.
> Failure of Success Criterion 1.3.2 due to using an HTML layout
> table that
> does not make sense when linearized | Techniques for WCAG 2.0
> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/F49.html
>
> -Len
>
>
From: Rabab Gomaa
Date: Wed, Apr 10 2013 5:44AM
Subject: Re: "Data Table" Definition
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Hello David,
Check these:
Tables (Not exactly a definition but an explanation)
http://wet-boew.github.io/wet-boew/demos/opt-cont/tbl-eng.html
H51: Using table markup to present tabular information
http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/H51
Rabab
>>> Sailesh Panchang < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > 4/9/2013 10:45 pm >>>
What would you think about a calendar table with 7 columns and 6 rows
and cells in row#1 (days of week Mon, Tue, etc.) marked up as TH
scope=col?
There can be tables with no row headers.
The 2x2 table (with WCAG and ADA) could also be say a table with 3
or 6 columns and just one row below it.
If col headers are marked up as TH one could read across the data row
comparing the text and have col headers announced if they are marked
up alright.
One could use dl-dt-dd to present data of the relationship label-> data, too.
It is the author's prerogative.
Only requirement is for suitable accessibility markup to be in place.
And there can be tables with only row headers and no col headers.
In a data table, there are rows or columns of data that bear some
relationship to data in adjacent cells / cells above or below.
Basically a table has records or rows of data.
Sailesh Panchang
www.deque.com
On 4/9/13, Len Burns < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> It is interesting, I had trouble finding a concise definition, but here is
> a
> good page explaining some of the perils of the improper use of layout
> tables.
> Failure of Success Criterion 1.3.2 due to using an HTML layout
> table that
> does not make sense when linearized | Techniques for WCAG 2.0
> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/F49.html
>
> -Len
>
>
From: Carol E Wheeler
Date: Wed, Apr 10 2013 8:13AM
Subject: Re: "Data Table" Definition
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Are CSS tables a realistic alternative?
--cew
*Carol E. Wheeler*
Web Co-ordinator
American Institute for Cancer Research
1759 R Street NW
Washington DC 20009
Direct Dial: 202-600-3001
Tel: 202-328-7744
Fax: 202-328-7226
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
http://www.aicr.org
From: David Ashleydale
Date: Wed, Apr 10 2013 10:45AM
Subject: Re: "Data Table" Definition
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Sailesh said, "There can be tables with no row headers."
I do agree with this in principle, but I'm just not sure there can ever be
a valid 2x2 data table. It's the fact that it's so small that is making me
believe it's not valid, not the fact that it doesn't have row headers.
My theory is that there is always a better way to present information than
using a 2x2 table. I will be looking through all the great information
everyone has forwarded to me to see if I can come up with a definition for
Data Tables that will prevent others from using a data table in cases like
this.
Thanks,
David Ashleydale
On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 7:13 AM, Carol E Wheeler < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Are CSS tables a realistic alternative?
>
> --cew
>
> *Carol E. Wheeler*
>
> Web Co-ordinator
> American Institute for Cancer Research
> 1759 R Street NW
> Washington DC 20009
>
> Direct Dial: 202-600-3001
> Tel: 202-328-7744
> Fax: 202-328-7226
>
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> http://www.aicr.org
>
> > > >
From: Subhash Chhetri
Date: Wed, Apr 10 2013 10:01PM
Subject: Re: "Data Table" Definition
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What David pointed out here is really interesting one.
I'm a totally blind person fully dependent upon Screen Reader in PC, and is
also working as an Accessibility testor for a few months herein India.
I'm completely agreed with David that data table is not only a means of
presenting this type of content. Rather I believe it is a wrong way of data
presentation.
If Author is much comfortable with table presentation for the content, this
data can be eficiently presented by making "WCAG" and "ADA" a row header
instead of column header, and turning it into layout using aria role -
presentation.
Then to make content easily navigable by Screen reader, author can use aria
role - heading with row headers.
Although it makes a UI change, but will be much accessible for Screen reader
user.
Thanks
Best regards,
Subhash Chhetri