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Number of posts in this thread: 16 (In chronological order)

From: Johnson, Melissa
Date: Mon, Dec 02 2013 3:22PM
Subject: Question about links opening in new tabs/windows
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Hello,

I have a questions regarding links that open in a new tab/window. Does
there need to be some kind of notification for users of assistive devices
when links open in new tabs/windows, or is this a common enough action that
additional information is not needed?

If this 'event' needs to be announced, what is the best method?

Melissa

M e l i s s a J o h n s o n

*"Accessibility does not begin with technical details. It begins with the
philosophy that people deserve equal access to information, regardless of
ability."*

Senior Instructional Designer | Professional Services | Pearson eCollege
tel: 303.658.1647 | email: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =

*Pearson*
Always Learning

From: Karl Groves
Date: Mon, Dec 02 2013 3:50PM
Subject: Re: Question about links opening in new tabs/windows
← Previous message | Next message →

Hi Melissa, this may give some guidance
http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG-TECHS/G201.html




On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 5:22 PM, Johnson, Melissa <
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I have a questions regarding links that open in a new tab/window. Does
> there need to be some kind of notification for users of assistive devices
> when links open in new tabs/windows, or is this a common enough action that
> additional information is not needed?
>
> If this 'event' needs to be announced, what is the best method?
>
> Melissa
>
> M e l i s s a J o h n s o n
>
> *"Accessibility does not begin with technical details. It begins with the
> philosophy that people deserve equal access to information, regardless of
> ability."*
>
> Senior Instructional Designer | Professional Services | Pearson eCollege
> tel: 303.658.1647 | email: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
> *Pearson*
> Always Learning
> > > >



--

Karl Groves
www.karlgroves.com
@karlgroves
http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlgroves
Phone: +1 410.541.6829

From: Jared Smith
Date: Mon, Dec 02 2013 4:24PM
Subject: Re: Question about links opening in new tabs/windows
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It is generally considered bad form to force links to open in new
windows, unless it is apparent and useful to the user. This is more of
a usability issue that affects everyone than an accessibility-specific
issue.

Most screen reader's will inform users when a link opens in a new
window, but not until after it has been activated. This is akin to
sighted users not knowing the link behaves this way until the new
window/tab appears.

There is no requirement (that I'm aware of) in WCAG or other
guidelines that such links indicate to the user that they open in a
new window. However, if there is a visual indication (such as an icon
or text), then this information must be made accessible to users that
cannot see the visual indication. The link Karl provided shows some
methods for doing this.

In short, you should avoid such links if possible. If you do implement
them, you must either inform nobody or everybody that the link opens
in a new window.

Jared

From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Mon, Dec 02 2013 4:46PM
Subject: Re: Question about links opening in new tabs/windows
← Previous message | Next message →

Jared

Out of curiosity, what WCAG SC would you call it out if there is a
visual indication that a link opens in a new window but this is not
apparent in link text or programmatically?
Is this a 4.1.2 issue, or 1.1.1 (assuming there is an icon that
indicates this but the icon does not have alt text)?
In discussion I had on this issue with a few colleagues some time ago
we came to the same conclusion.
You could technically claim that 2.4.9 might require a notification on
all links that open in a new window but
a. That is subject to interpretation and
b. It is a AAA requirement anyway.
http://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/navigation-mechanisms-link.html

But 4.1.2 is a broad level A criteria that often applies to custom
controls and I think might be interpreted to apply if visually a
control opens links in a new page, even when said control is simply a
link or a button.
One mistake I see a lot these days is using aria-haspopup to indicate
that links open in a new tab or webpage, and that is incorrect and
misleading use of the ARIA attribute.
All that being said, it can sometimes be convenient to have links open
in a new window, for instance TWitter links on your timeline.

Cheers
-Birkir
Accessibility SME | Deque Systems



On 12/2/13, Jared Smith < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> It is generally considered bad form to force links to open in new
> windows, unless it is apparent and useful to the user. This is more of
> a usability issue that affects everyone than an accessibility-specific
> issue.
>
> Most screen reader's will inform users when a link opens in a new
> window, but not until after it has been activated. This is akin to
> sighted users not knowing the link behaves this way until the new
> window/tab appears.
>
> There is no requirement (that I'm aware of) in WCAG or other
> guidelines that such links indicate to the user that they open in a
> new window. However, if there is a visual indication (such as an icon
> or text), then this information must be made accessible to users that
> cannot see the visual indication. The link Karl provided shows some
> methods for doing this.
>
> In short, you should avoid such links if possible. If you do implement
> them, you must either inform nobody or everybody that the link opens
> in a new window.
>
> Jared
> > > >


--
Work hard. Have fun. Make history.

From: Jared Smith
Date: Mon, Dec 02 2013 5:51PM
Subject: Re: Question about links opening in new tabs/windows
← Previous message | Next message →

Birkir R. Gunnarsson wrote:

> Out of curiosity, what WCAG SC would you call it out if there is a
> visual indication that a link opens in a new window but this is not
> apparent in link text or programmatically?

1.1.1.

It seems a stretch to make this fit into 4.1.2.

> All that being said, it can sometimes be convenient to have links open
> in a new window, for instance TWitter links on your timeline.

Yep. If done consistently to all links, this can be useful in certain
applications, though in standard web pages, it's just a pain. When all
links in an application consistently open in a new tab/window, I can
easily argue that providing a visual indication for all of these links
would simply clutter the interface and make it less accessible.

Jared

From: Greg Gamble
Date: Tue, Dec 03 2013 8:54AM
Subject: Re: Question about links opening in new tabs/windows
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In my standard of handling links, if it's an outside link then it opens a new tab or window, and is marked with a tool tip stating a new windows will be opening. If the link is internal it stays on the same tab or windows. I'd think this would be the preferred way of handling links, especially for those concerned with web site marketing.


Greg

From: Jared Smith
Date: Tue, Dec 03 2013 10:01AM
Subject: Re: Question about links opening in new tabs/windows
← Previous message | Next message →

Greg Gamble wrote:
> I'd think this would be the preferred way of handling links, especially for those concerned with web site marketing.

I disagree. If this were "the preferred way of handling links", all
external links would automatically open in new tabs/windows and you'd
have to program them not to.

Forcing new windows/tabs has consistently been in Jakob Nielsen's top
mistakes lists since 1999:
http://www.nngroup.com/articles/top-10-mistakes-web-design/
http://www.nngroup.com/articles/the-top-ten-web-design-mistakes-of-1999/

If you're concerned about folks not knowing they are leaving your site
(it is 2013, I think folks can tell sites apart these days and they
know how to use the Back button), I think a better approach is to use
an icon indicator to designate external links and give the user the
option of opening the link in a new window rather than forcing this
upon them.

Some other resources:
http://uxdesign.smashingmagazine.com/2008/07/01/should-links-open-in-new-windows/
http://www.webcredible.co.uk/user-friendly-resources/web-usability/new-browser-windows.shtml
https://managewp.com/should-you-open-links-in-new-windows

Jared

From: Jonathan Metz
Date: Tue, Dec 03 2013 11:33AM
Subject: Re: Question about links opening in new tabs/windows
← Previous message | Next message →

I don¹t subscribe to the Cult of Nielsen, so I have to respectfully
disagree. Yes, people know where the ŒBack¹ button is, but I doubt most
people use that as much anymore, since modern browsers have embraced tabs
as the future of window management. I wonder if Ctrl+W has become more
popular than pressing a back button. If that¹s the case, you end up with a
bunch of users closing a site that it was intended for them to stay on. I
make that mistake all the time these days since I¹ve transitioned from
FireFox to Chrome¹s terrible tab management.

Personally, I prefer to let people know that accessing external links will
leave the site, similar to the way Wikipedia does it. This way it¹s like
saying, ³feel free to look around, we¹ll still be here when you tire of
that other site.²




On 12/3/13 12:01 PM, "Jared Smith" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

>Greg Gamble wrote:
>> I'd think this would be the preferred way of handling links, especially
>>for those concerned with web site marketing.
>
>I disagree. If this were "the preferred way of handling links", all
>external links would automatically open in new tabs/windows and you'd
>have to program them not to.
>
>Forcing new windows/tabs has consistently been in Jakob Nielsen's top
>mistakes lists since 1999:
>http://www.nngroup.com/articles/top-10-mistakes-web-design/
>http://www.nngroup.com/articles/the-top-ten-web-design-mistakes-of-1999/
>
>If you're concerned about folks not knowing they are leaving your site
>(it is 2013, I think folks can tell sites apart these days and they
>know how to use the Back button), I think a better approach is to use
>an icon indicator to designate external links and give the user the
>option of opening the link in a new window rather than forcing this
>upon them.
>
>Some other resources:
>http://uxdesign.smashingmagazine.com/2008/07/01/should-links-open-in-new-w
>indows/
>http://www.webcredible.co.uk/user-friendly-resources/web-usability/new-bro
>wser-windows.shtml
>https://managewp.com/should-you-open-links-in-new-windows
>
>Jared
>>>

From: Rick Hill
Date: Tue, Dec 03 2013 11:45AM
Subject: Re: Question about links opening in new tabs/windows
← Previous message | Next message →

I don't usually chime in, but I'm gonna. I wanted to add (and pardon if I'm redundant) that forcing the user to open a new window/tab removed choice. If the external link open in the existing window/tab by default, the user has the option (if they know how rouse their browser) of opening the link in a new window or tab. However, if the link opens in a new window/tab by default, the user has no choice in the matter. Maximizing user options is a better path in general. Sometimes forcing an new window/tab might be necessary circumstantially. But not as a default behavior.

Rick Hill
UC Davis

From: Jonathan Metz < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >>
Reply-To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >>
Date: Tuesday, December 3, 2013 at 10:33 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >>
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Question about links opening in new tabs/windows

I don¹t subscribe to the Cult of Nielsen, so I have to respectfully
disagree. Yes, people know where the ŒBack¹ button is, but I doubt most
people use that as much anymore, since modern browsers have embraced tabs
as the future of window management. I wonder if Ctrl+W has become more
popular than pressing a back button. If that¹s the case, you end up with a
bunch of users closing a site that it was intended for them to stay on. I
make that mistake all the time these days since I¹ve transitioned from
FireFox to Chrome¹s terrible tab management.

Personally, I prefer to let people know that accessing external links will
leave the site, similar to the way Wikipedia does it. This way it¹s like
saying, ³feel free to look around, we¹ll still be here when you tire of
that other site.²




On 12/3/13 12:01 PM, "Jared Smith" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >> wrote:

Greg Gamble wrote:
I'd think this would be the preferred way of handling links, especially
for those concerned with web site marketing.

I disagree. If this were "the preferred way of handling links", all
external links would automatically open in new tabs/windows and you'd
have to program them not to.

Forcing new windows/tabs has consistently been in Jakob Nielsen's top
mistakes lists since 1999:
http://www.nngroup.com/articles/top-10-mistakes-web-design/
http://www.nngroup.com/articles/the-top-ten-web-design-mistakes-of-1999/

If you're concerned about folks not knowing they are leaving your site
(it is 2013, I think folks can tell sites apart these days and they
know how to use the Back button), I think a better approach is to use
an icon indicator to designate external links and give the user the
option of opening the link in a new window rather than forcing this
upon them.

Some other resources:
http://uxdesign.smashingmagazine.com/2008/07/01/should-links-open-in-new-w
indows/
http://www.webcredible.co.uk/user-friendly-resources/web-usability/new-bro
wser-windows.shtml
https://managewp.com/should-you-open-links-in-new-windows

Jared

From: Greg Gamble
Date: Tue, Dec 03 2013 11:58AM
Subject: Re: Question about links opening in new tabs/windows
← Previous message | Next message →

The reason I open a new tab for an offsite link is pretty simple. Consider this: You're on a site with a high level of complexity, you click a link to a similar site, but not the original. Now you're on someone else's site and if your following an article you could even click out to another site. Now ... where is that original page I was on?? Back buttons don't work on every site and there may have been some redirects in there that you're not aware of, so now you need to open the history page to see if you can find that original page.

Easier to open a separate tab and maintain the original site ... and yes it's 2013, but not everyone knows how to use a browser beyond clicking a link or using a back button.

JMO :-)


Greg

From: Karl Groves
Date: Tue, Dec 03 2013 12:15PM
Subject: Re: Question about links opening in new tabs/windows
← Previous message | Next message →

This comes from a very old blog post of mine but is still very relevant:


Regardless of whether they're used for supplementary content or external
links, the practice [of opening new windows] raises additional usability
problems.

One of my colleagues writes:

I have been doing some usability testing for a local hospital and we have
been fortunate to have participants with no familiarity with the web all
the way to self-described experts. We tested pages where external links
opened in a new window and pages where external links opened in the same
window. Nobody had trouble navigating when links opened in the same window.
Many people had trouble navigating when links opened in a new window.

- Most everyone used the back button to navigate the site and not the
site navigation links.
- Many people didn't notice when a new window opened, even when the page
explicitly indicated that links would open in a new window.
- Many people were unable to get back to the main site when a new window
opened because the back button did not work.

I have long thought that people get disoriented when following links and
that I, as the designer, had to build in ways to help people keep their
bearings. So I've done the javascript popups and the target="whatever". But
from watching people work with the web I am starting to think that people
don't really notice when they go from one site to another, and that they
also don't really care. They are questing for information and don't much
care where they get it. The damage done by trying to be helpful and impose
"context" is much greater than that done by leaving people to make their
own way.

These observations mirrored my own. During a recent usability test, I
noticed that new windows had caused disorientation in all users who had
experienced them. Primarily, this manifested itself in the form of a
"broken" back button. When users experienced these new windows and wished
to go back to where they came from, they were unable to. In fact, ALL
participants needed to be informed by the test facilitator that a new
window had opened and that in order to get back to the site, they needed to
close the new window. This is the last thing a facilitator wants to do.
Interrupting a test participant derails the testing process, and a
facilitator will often wait quite a long time to see if the participant can
figure out the problem for themselves. However, the new windows were such a
problem that the facilitator needed to interrupt the test so that we could
continue.
Any new window causes confusion and frustration, resulting in lost users

New windows opened via the "target" attribute causes confusion for the
user, breaks the back button, and harms your users' perception of your
site. For those who think that opening a new window will help keep the user
from "losing the [original] site", the real effect is exactly the opposite.

In a recent usability test I observed, about half the participants actually
got lost. With the new window completely covering the original site, they
did not notice that they had two (or more) windows open. In an attempt to
return to the original site, they repeatedly hit the back button. When that
didn't work, they totally closed all browser windows and completely started
over. Despite the fact that some sites insist on opening new windows "so
the visitor doesn't lose our site" when in actuality, the new windows
appear to actually cause people to lose the site rather than keep them.
"Band-Aids" only cover a gaping wound

During discussions of opening new windows with a colleague of mine, the
argument was posed that seemed to make sense: The primary problem with
these new windows wasn't just the fact that the new window existed. The
biggest issue was the fact that the window was full size, therefore
covering the old window completely. This, he said, is what caused the
users' confusion. The solution my colleague proposed was that the new
window should be created so that it is noticeably smaller than full screen
- say, 700 x 500. On the surface, this seems like an excellent solution.

Then, during another recent test, I noticed that users who encountered
these smaller-than-full-sized windows would click the button in the upper
right-hand corner in order to maximize the window. Because the site being
tested opened new windows in multiple screens, some participants wound up
with 3 or even 4 windows of the site open to full screen. It almost gave
the impression that the new windows were cloning themselves. This practice
of opening smaller windows is certainly is not a "fix", in my opinion.
Indeed, there's just no cure for the problems created by new windows except
to simply avoid them.



On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 1:58 PM, Greg Gamble < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> The reason I open a new tab for an offsite link is pretty simple.
> Consider this: You're on a site with a high level of complexity, you
> click a link to a similar site, but not the original. Now you're on
> someone else's site and if your following an article you could even click
> out to another site. Now ... where is that original page I was on?? Back
> buttons don't work on every site and there may have been some redirects in
> there that you're not aware of, so now you need to open the history page to
> see if you can find that original page.
>
> Easier to open a separate tab and maintain the original site ... and yes
> it's 2013, but not everyone knows how to use a browser beyond clicking a
> link or using a back button.
>
> JMO :-)
>
>
> Greg
>
>
>

From: Jared Smith
Date: Tue, Dec 03 2013 12:17PM
Subject: Re: Question about links opening in new tabs/windows
← Previous message | Next message →

Greg Gamble wrote:
> you click a link to a similar site, but not the original. Now you're on someone else's site

Yep. That's how links work. Or at least how they are supposed to if
you don't mess them up by overriding default behavior by forcing new
windows/tabs. Thank you for reinforcing my point. ;-)

> Back buttons don't work on every site and there may have been some redirects in there that you're not aware of

But your new window/tab GUARANTEES that the back button will not work.

If the site you're linking to is broken, then that site is broken and
should be fixed. Adding another level of complexity by forcing a new
window does not make the situation better.

> ... and yes it's 2013, but not everyone knows how to use a browser beyond clicking a link or using a back button.

Again, you're making my point for me. If users know how links should
work and that they can click the back button, why complicate matters
by forcing them to deal with multiple browser windows/tabs?

Jared

From: Greg Gamble
Date: Tue, Dec 03 2013 1:21PM
Subject: Re: Question about links opening in new tabs/windows
← Previous message | Next message →

The problem with this is that Browsers have tabbed windows todays, its normal to have more than one open tab. When Browser did not have tabs, a new window was actually a new browser instance ... and these stacked on each other, which was very confusing ... especially if they were minimized. But with tabbed viewing, not so much. My 75 year old mother has no issues navigating with tabbed windows. She gets what she wants, closes the tab, then goes back to the original one. But again, this is just my opinion and what I see from users I actually interact with.


Greg

From: Druckman,Geri
Date: Tue, Dec 03 2013 1:53PM
Subject: Re: Question about links opening in new tabs/windows
← Previous message | Next message →

Hi,

Just to bring this conversation back to topic, and to emphasize what Karl
Groves already mentioned.

Q: Does there need to be some kind of notification for users of assistive
devices
when links open in new tabs/windows, or is this a common enough action that
additional information is not needed?

Yes, there needs to be an advanced notification before opening or sending
off a user to a new tab or window, as specified in success criteria 3.2.2
"On input - Changing the setting of any user interface component does not
automatically cause a change of context unless the user has been advised
of the behavior before using the component. (Level A)" - This is an
umbrella statement for any form input fields that may generate a change,
commonly seen social media icons/buttons that take you to twitter,
Facebook etc., and just about any link that does not keep you in the same
browser window/tab you're already in.

And Karl pointed out the guidelines at
http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG-TECHS/G201.html

Q: If this 'event' needs to be announced, what is the best method?

Best method? That really is up to you. Use additional text in the link
saying "this opens in a new window" (or tab), add a title attribute to the
link, and use it to notify the user, use CSS (as the G201 points out). Use
whatever works best for you, as long as you give the user a heads-up, and
that heads-up is accessible (and doesn't violate any other WCAG success
criteria).


--
Geri Druckman
Web Development Specialist - Accessibility
Department of Internet Services
MD Anderson Cancer Center
T 713-792-6293 | F 713-745-8134






On 12/3/13 12:58 PM, "Greg Gamble" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

>The reason I open a new tab for an offsite link is pretty simple.
>Consider this: You're on a site with a high level of complexity, you
>click a link to a similar site, but not the original. Now you're on
>someone else's site and if your following an article you could even click
>out to another site. Now ... where is that original page I was on?? Back
>buttons don't work on every site and there may have been some redirects
>in there that you're not aware of, so now you need to open the history
>page to see if you can find that original page.
>
>Easier to open a separate tab and maintain the original site ... and yes
>it's 2013, but not everyone knows how to use a browser beyond clicking a
>link or using a back button.
>
>JMO :-)
>
>
>Greg
>
>
>

From: Jens O. Meiert
Date: Thu, Dec 05 2013 2:43PM
Subject: Re: Question about links opening in new tabs/windows
← Previous message | Next message →

Interesting thread.

To share some of my experience, I'm a friend of the "if a non-disabled
user has the same issue, it's not an accessibility problem" school of
thought (in a sense of locking users out), and the notification
question is then not one of accessibility.

I also subscribe to the approach of "[if] a browser or adaptive
technology can or should handle an accessibility issue, I won't,"
propagated by Joe Clark in 2007 [1], and the notification question is
now a tool one.

Then, when it comes to links the Web seems to have matured enough that
we can say that

1) links should open in the same window (unless they invoke a
different application [2]), because it's _the user_ who can and should
control how links are handled (like opening a link in a new window if
so desired), and

2) links do not need any particular highlighting (unless invoking
different applications too as for email or document links, which can
be done through appropriate link wording as in e.g.
"<a> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = </a>").

And to add a principle then, for good measure, it typically pays off
to keep it simple. That means, a plain simple a@href that is styled so
to be recognizable as a link and indicates when it has been visited
should be enough in 99% of all cases.

This is all to say, use simple links, skip the extras, and don't worry
about them.


[1] http://joeclark.org/appearances/atmedia2007/
[2] http://www.nngroup.com/articles/open-new-windows-for-pdfs/

--
Jens O. Meiert
http://meiert.com/en/

✍ New book! http://meiert.com/everyday-adventurer

From: Olaf Drümmer
Date: Thu, Dec 05 2013 3:45PM
Subject: Re: Question about links opening in new tabs/windows
← Previous message | No next message

+1

Am 5 Dec 2013 um 22:43 schrieb Jens O. Meiert < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >:

> This is all to say, use simple links, skip the extras, and don’t worry
> about them.