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From: Vyas, Nilima
Date: Sun, Apr 23 2017 9:41PM
Subject: Converting simple math to Mathtype: Scope
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Hello All,
This may appear as a rookie question, and your knowledge sharing is much appreciated.

I have been asked to key in all in-text equations, variables, any Math operators into MathType and provide a corresponding alt-text. Now I presume that new-gen screen readers are capable of reading simple Math such as n = 20; p < 0.05, <6, and so on in text and to some extent Greek characters as well.
My question is: Is this a necessary accessibility requirement for simple math like n = 20; p < 0.05, <6, and so on. If it isn't, then the stakes (in terms of data integrity) of going about MathTyping and alt-texting are pretty high.

Thanks in advance for your responses.
Vyas.

****

From: Mallory
Date: Mon, Apr 24 2017 2:50AM
Subject: Re: Converting simple math to Mathtype: Scope
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Hi,
unfortunately screen readers, even when the users set punctuation to
verbose, don't always necessarily read out even simple or basic math
symbols correctly. Even with the ohm/omega symbol (I once ran across
a document that meant ohms but used omega), per screen reader you
*might* get a unicode name (uppercase greek omega), or you'll get a
complete blank (as if the character isn't even there).

https://www.deque.com/blog/dont-screen-readers-read-whats-screen-part-1-punctuation-typographic-symbols/

At work, for Powerpoints specifically, we have a list of which
characters
must by typed in via MathType, or via the MathType toolbar, because
of this issue of diverse reading:

"Keyboard characters that should be used only from within MathType to
create a MathType equation:
Letters
Numbers
Minus sign
Plus sign
Equal sign
Comma
Exclamation point
Dollar
Percent
Less than
Greater than"
and
"These characters must be applied from the MathType toolbar:
Tilde
Similar to
Prime
Caret
Asterisk
Parentheses
Brackets
Angle brackets
Braces
Less than or equal to
Greater than or equal to
Multiplication dot (called the "dot operator", use the smallest of the
MathType pull-down choices; using this symbol will also include space on
either side of the operator automatically)"

Again, this is for PowerPoints specifically although I'm pretty sure our
rules are similar for things like Word. For HTML pages, it's MathML.

That said, I've seen the accompanying alt text vary. The safer
characters
listed in the deque link above I see people type directly ("=" rather
than
"equals"), but most of the time people seem to spell out the words
entirely for safety. Some users like the "ascii math" often put in alt
text (straight symbols from keyboard) but I feel if I'll support a broad
range
of screen readers then I can't really do that.

I heard at CSUN that, as far as Windows 10 and the equation editor that
comes
with PowerPoint, that Narrator reads those out pretty well (we avoid the
equation editor in favour of MathType for the screen reader issues
mentioned
above).

NVDA seems to be the popular screen reader with the most symbol reading
issues when it comes to math.

cheers,
Mallory

On Mon, Apr 24, 2017, at 05:41 AM, Vyas, Nilima wrote:
> Hello All,
> This may appear as a rookie question, and your knowledge sharing is much
> appreciated.
>
> I have been asked to key in all in-text equations, variables, any Math
> operators into MathType and provide a corresponding alt-text. Now I
> presume that new-gen screen readers are capable of reading simple Math
> such as n = 20; p < 0.05, <6, and so on in text and to some extent Greek
> characters as well.
> My question is: Is this a necessary accessibility requirement for simple
> math like n = 20; p < 0.05, <6, and so on. If it isn't, then the stakes
> (in terms of data integrity) of going about MathTyping and alt-texting
> are pretty high.
>
> Thanks in advance for your responses.
> Vyas.
>
> ****
> > > >

From: Jonathan Cohn
Date: Mon, Apr 24 2017 8:48AM
Subject: Re: Converting simple math to Mathtype: Scope
← Previous message | Next message →

There is some support of MathML out there. JAWS certainly supports it for
both speech and braille and has a test page available. I believe Sina has
created an equivalent plugin for MathML on NVDA. I don't know directly
about Window Eyes, but could test later today. Also, on the Macintosh
front, if your VoiceOver WEB mode is "DOM" then Math ML support is almost
as good (via voice, I haven't tested Braille) as with JAWS. If WEB mode for
VoiceOVer is set to grouping then MathML drops a bit of the context. Also,
I have noticed issues that I have not yet resolved with JAWS and it
occasionally seeing operators in MathML equations as different characters.



On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 4:50 AM Mallory < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> Hi,
> unfortunately screen readers, even when the users set punctuation to
> verbose, don't always necessarily read out even simple or basic math
> symbols correctly. Even with the ohm/omega symbol (I once ran across
> a document that meant ohms but used omega), per screen reader you
> *might* get a unicode name (uppercase greek omega), or you'll get a
> complete blank (as if the character isn't even there).
>
>
> https://www.deque.com/blog/dont-screen-readers-read-whats-screen-part-1-punctuation-typographic-symbols/
>
> At work, for Powerpoints specifically, we have a list of which
> characters
> must by typed in via MathType, or via the MathType toolbar, because
> of this issue of diverse reading:
>
> "Keyboard characters that should be used only from within MathType to
> create a MathType equation:
> Letters
> Numbers
> Minus sign
> Plus sign
> Equal sign
> Comma
> Exclamation point
> Dollar
> Percent
> Less than
> Greater than"
> and
> "These characters must be applied from the MathType toolbar:
> Tilde
> Similar to
> Prime
> Caret
> Asterisk
> Parentheses
> Brackets
> Angle brackets
> Braces
> Less than or equal to
> Greater than or equal to
> Multiplication dot (called the "dot operator", use the smallest of the
> MathType pull-down choices; using this symbol will also include space on
> either side of the operator automatically)"
>
> Again, this is for PowerPoints specifically although I'm pretty sure our
> rules are similar for things like Word. For HTML pages, it's MathML.
>
> That said, I've seen the accompanying alt text vary. The safer
> characters
> listed in the deque link above I see people type directly ("=" rather
> than
> "equals"), but most of the time people seem to spell out the words
> entirely for safety. Some users like the "ascii math" often put in alt
> text (straight symbols from keyboard) but I feel if I'll support a broad
> range
> of screen readers then I can't really do that.
>
> I heard at CSUN that, as far as Windows 10 and the equation editor that
> comes
> with PowerPoint, that Narrator reads those out pretty well (we avoid the
> equation editor in favour of MathType for the screen reader issues
> mentioned
> above).
>
> NVDA seems to be the popular screen reader with the most symbol reading
> issues when it comes to math.
>
> cheers,
> Mallory
>
> On Mon, Apr 24, 2017, at 05:41 AM, Vyas, Nilima wrote:
> > Hello All,
> > This may appear as a rookie question, and your knowledge sharing is much
> > appreciated.
> >
> > I have been asked to key in all in-text equations, variables, any Math
> > operators into MathType and provide a corresponding alt-text. Now I
> > presume that new-gen screen readers are capable of reading simple Math
> > such as n = 20; p < 0.05, <6, and so on in text and to some extent Greek
> > characters as well.
> > My question is: Is this a necessary accessibility requirement for simple
> > math like n = 20; p < 0.05, <6, and so on. If it isn't, then the stakes
> > (in terms of data integrity) of going about MathTyping and alt-texting
> > are pretty high.
> >
> > Thanks in advance for your responses.
> > Vyas.
> >
> > ****
> > > > > > > > > > > > >

From: Sean Keegan
Date: Mon, Apr 24 2017 5:28PM
Subject: Re: Converting simple math to Mathtype: Scope
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> I have been asked to key in all in-text equations, variables, any Math
operators
> into MathType and provide a corresponding alt-text.

What is the intended use case for entering all math equations into MathType
only to provide a text alternative? Is this intended for individuals using
screen-readers in a document, on the web, etc. or is this just for general
document formatting?

Typically, MathType is used in conjunction with MS Word and, depending on
how the document is to be used (and what assistive technology is
available), adding a full text equivalent is a bit overkill and does not
lend itself to using the content in different formats.


> My question is: Is this a necessary accessibility requirement for simple
math
> like n = 20; p < 0.05, <6, and so on.

Generally speaking, I would say no, do not add a text description to such
math content BUT this is dependent on the output format; that is, what the
user will be consuming.

For example, if the intent is to distribute math content via MathML, then I
would encourage the use of MathJax along with a newer version of
screen-reader applications (e.g., NVDA, JAWS, VO.). If on the Windows
platform, I would also suggest installing MathPlayer as that gives more
flexibility in how math content is spoken.


Take care,
Sean