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Thread: Preferred mode for JAWS users?
Number of posts in this thread: 14 (In chronological order)
From: Robert Fentress
Date: Tue, Jun 19 2018 7:38AM
Subject: Preferred mode for JAWS users?
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Does anyone have a sense of what mode most JAWS users prefer: Manual Forms
Mode, Auto Forms Mode, or Semi-Auto Forms mode? I had heard a while back
from one JAWS user that experienced users of the software preferred Manual,
but that was just one person and was quite a while ago, so I wonder if that
is really true, and if it may have changed as sites increasingly use ARIA
composite widgets. Any data on this anywhere?
Best,
Rob
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Accessible Technologies at Virginia Tech
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From: Steve Green
Date: Tue, Jun 19 2018 8:21AM
Subject: Re: Preferred mode for JAWS users?
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In all our user testing I have never seen anyone use anything other than Auto Forms Mode since it was introduced in JAWS 10. Some people who used JAWS prior to that might prefer Manual Forms Mode but Auto Forms Mode was well received in my experience.
Although Semi-Auto and Manual are still available, I'm not sure why anyone would prefer them.
Steve Green
Managing Director
Test Partners Ltd
From: Morten Tollefsen
Date: Tue, Jun 19 2018 8:29AM
Subject: Re: Preferred mode for JAWS users?
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OK, I use manual mode. The main reason is that I have control, know that virtual mode is selected (and quick keys are available). I work faster and make less 'errors' when I have to enter forms mode, and I tested auto forms mode for a couple of months just to be sure that it wasn't just because I've always used manual mode.
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From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > on behalf of Steve Green < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2018 4:21:45 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Preferred mode for JAWS users?
In all our user testing I have never seen anyone use anything other than Auto Forms Mode since it was introduced in JAWS 10. Some people who used JAWS prior to that might prefer Manual Forms Mode but Auto Forms Mode was well received in my experience.
Although Semi-Auto and Manual are still available, I'm not sure why anyone would prefer them.
Steve Green
Managing Director
Test Partners Ltd
From: Ajay Sharma
Date: Tue, Jun 19 2018 8:32AM
Subject: Re: Preferred mode for JAWS users?
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That mostly depends upon situation, but most of the times I keep it
off. The pop sound isn't pleasing when you just want to skim through
the page and do not want to interact with the form controls every now
and then.
Best Regards,
Ajay
On 6/19/18, Steve Green < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> In all our user testing I have never seen anyone use anything other than
> Auto Forms Mode since it was introduced in JAWS 10. Some people who used
> JAWS prior to that might prefer Manual Forms Mode but Auto Forms Mode was
> well received in my experience.
>
> Although Semi-Auto and Manual are still available, I'm not sure why anyone
> would prefer them.
>
> Steve Green
> Managing Director
> Test Partners Ltd
>
>
>
From: Jonathan Cohn
Date: Tue, Jun 19 2018 8:49AM
Subject: Re: Preferred mode for JAWS users?
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> On Jun 19, 2018, at 10:32 AM, Ajay Sharma < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> That mostly depends upon situation, but most of the times I keep it
> off. The pop sound isn't pleasing when you just want to skim through
> the page and do not want to interact with the form controls every now
> and then.
This is why I
use semi-automatic mode, unless I am testing. When navigating with arrow keys or quick nav forms mode stays off and I can keep reading. Also, if I try to arrow past the last character in an input field it refuses to do so. But if using the tab key, forms mode turns on when a widget is encountered. I am also afraid that using the space bar might not only trigger forms mode, but transmit that space through to the web page when encountering radio or normal buttons. which might cause side effects I am trying to avoid.
Jonathan Cohn
From: Andrews, David B (DEED)
Date: Tue, Jun 19 2018 9:08AM
Subject: Re: Preferred mode for JAWS users?
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I am not aware of any data on this. I would say though, that it is my belief that most JAWS users do not change their default settings, so they tend to use it as JAWS sets it. I think Auto is the default -- but not positive.
I tend to use semi-auto because I like the control, but I don't think I am a typical user.
Dave
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From: Steve Green
Date: Tue, Jun 19 2018 9:09AM
Subject: Re: Preferred mode for JAWS users?
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Yes, the default is Auto.
From: David Farough
Date: Tue, Jun 19 2018 10:06AM
Subject: Re: Preferred mode for JAWS users?
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I agree with Jonathan, but I don't believe that I am a typical user
either. For me, Auto forms mode just gets in the way.
David Farough
Coordonnateur de l'accessibilité des applications, Services intégrés de
gestion des TI
Commission de la fonction publique du Canada / Gouvernement du Canada
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819-420-8408
Application Accessibility Co-ordinator, Corporate IT Management
Public Service Commission of Canada / Government of Canada
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>>> Jonathan Cohn < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > 10:49 AM Tuesday, June 19,
2018 >>>
This is why I
use semi-automatic mode, unless I am testing. When navigating with
arrow keys or quick nav forms mode stays off and I can keep reading.
Also, if I try to arrow past the last character in an input field it
refuses to do so. But if using the tab key, forms mode turns on when a
widget is encountered. I am also afraid that using the space bar might
not only trigger forms mode, but transmit that space through to the web
page when encountering radio or normal buttons. which might cause side
effects I am trying to avoid.
Jonathan Cohn
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From: Jonathan Avila
Date: Tue, Jun 19 2018 10:51AM
Subject: Re: Preferred mode for JAWS users?
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> Although Semi-Auto and Manual are still available, I'm not sure why anyone would prefer them.
If you have improperly coded pages you may need to use manual or semi. For example, an improperly coded ARIA based drop down where you want to use arrow keys to move up and down in a custom list but JAWS kicks you out of forms mode when down arrow is pressed. I've also run into issues with getting stuck in edit fields in the past but that seems to be much improved.
Jonathan
Jonathan Avila
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From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Tue, Jun 19 2018 7:45PM
Subject: Re: Preferred mode for JAWS users?
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I think the more advanced the user, the more likely they are to use
manual mode. I"m pretty sure that goes for software in general.
Advanced users bother to change the defaults.
I want control over when Jaws sends a click event vs. when it passes
the keyboard events through to the browser so I go full manual.
Don't expect your typical user to prefer that though.
In terms of web design, you shouldn't even think about this, just
focus on coding things correctly and let the screen reader take care
of when to enter interactive mode vs. browse mode.
On 6/19/18, Jonathan Avila < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>> Although Semi-Auto and Manual are still available, I'm not sure why anyone
>> would prefer them.
>
> If you have improperly coded pages you may need to use manual or semi. For
> example, an improperly coded ARIA based drop down where you want to use
> arrow keys to move up and down in a custom list but JAWS kicks you out of
> forms mode when down arrow is pressed. I've also run into issues with
> getting stuck in edit fields in the past but that seems to be much
> improved.
>
> Jonathan
>
> Jonathan Avila
> Chief Accessibility Officer
> Level Access
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> 703.637.8957 office
>
> Visit us online:
> Website | Twitter | Facebook | LinkedIn | Blog
>
> Looking to boost your accessibility knowledge? Check out our free webinars!
>
> The information contained in this transmission may be attorney privileged
> and/or confidential information intended for the use of the individual or
> entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended
> recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution
> or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.
>
>
>
From: Robert Fentress
Date: Tue, Jun 19 2018 9:38PM
Subject: Re: Preferred mode for JAWS users?
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Thanks.
I guess as a sighted person who uses JAWS for testing of web pages, I want
to get as much of a feel for what the user experience is like for the
"average" person who actually needs to use the software. I'd hoped there
would be more consensus, in which case I could feel like I wouldn't have to
worry as much about testing with the less common configurations. I know
it, technically, shouldn't matter, but for custom widgets, sometimes things
seem to behave strangely (especially with IE) and, I suspect, differently
depending on the mode (could be wrong there).
I recognize the danger of naive sighted users testing with screen readers,
but I feel like I should push myself, as much as I can, to get familiar
with the software, so that I can develop appropriate intuitions about how
things "should" behave. Coding to standards is good, but actually trying
to develop widgets that are functional and usable for the broadest range of
users is better. I think that requires actual testing with AT, and we
can't afford to hire people who actually *need* to use the software on a
regular basis to do our testing, so that leaves me.
On Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 9:45 PM Birkir R. Gunnarsson <
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> I think the more advanced the user, the more likely they are to use
> manual mode. I"m pretty sure that goes for software in general.
> Advanced users bother to change the defaults.
> I want control over when Jaws sends a click event vs. when it passes
> the keyboard events through to the browser so I go full manual.
> Don't expect your typical user to prefer that though.
> In terms of web design, you shouldn't even think about this, just
> focus on coding things correctly and let the screen reader take care
> of when to enter interactive mode vs. browse mode.
>
>
>
> On 6/19/18, Jonathan Avila < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> >> Although Semi-Auto and Manual are still available, I'm not sure why
> anyone
> >> would prefer them.
> >
> > If you have improperly coded pages you may need to use manual or semi.
> For
> > example, an improperly coded ARIA based drop down where you want to use
> > arrow keys to move up and down in a custom list but JAWS kicks you out of
> > forms mode when down arrow is pressed. I've also run into issues with
> > getting stuck in edit fields in the past but that seems to be much
> > improved.
> >
> > Jonathan
> >
> > Jonathan Avila
> > Chief Accessibility Officer
> > Level Access
> > = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > 703.637.8957 office
> >
> > Visit us online:
> > Website | Twitter | Facebook | LinkedIn | Blog
> >
> > Looking to boost your accessibility knowledge? Check out our free
> webinars!
> >
> > The information contained in this transmission may be attorney privileged
> > and/or confidential information intended for the use of the individual or
> > entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended
> > recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination,
> distribution
> > or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.
> >
> >
> >
From: Mohith BP
Date: Tue, Jun 19 2018 10:43PM
Subject: Re: Preferred mode for JAWS users?
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Hi,
Usually I keep it manual. however I suggest it is okay for you to
perform test with the default settings which is auto forms mode.
Few ARIA Roles such as role application anyhow forces the forms mode
regardless of the users settings.
Thanks & Regards,
Mohith B. P.
On 6/20/18, Robert Fentress < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Thanks.
>
> I guess as a sighted person who uses JAWS for testing of web pages, I want
> to get as much of a feel for what the user experience is like for the
> "average" person who actually needs to use the software. I'd hoped there
> would be more consensus, in which case I could feel like I wouldn't have to
> worry as much about testing with the less common configurations. I know
> it, technically, shouldn't matter, but for custom widgets, sometimes things
> seem to behave strangely (especially with IE) and, I suspect, differently
> depending on the mode (could be wrong there).
>
> I recognize the danger of naive sighted users testing with screen readers,
> but I feel like I should push myself, as much as I can, to get familiar
> with the software, so that I can develop appropriate intuitions about how
> things "should" behave. Coding to standards is good, but actually trying
> to develop widgets that are functional and usable for the broadest range of
> users is better. I think that requires actual testing with AT, and we
> can't afford to hire people who actually *need* to use the software on a
> regular basis to do our testing, so that leaves me.
>
> On Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 9:45 PM Birkir R. Gunnarsson <
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
>> I think the more advanced the user, the more likely they are to use
>> manual mode. I"m pretty sure that goes for software in general.
>> Advanced users bother to change the defaults.
>> I want control over when Jaws sends a click event vs. when it passes
>> the keyboard events through to the browser so I go full manual.
>> Don't expect your typical user to prefer that though.
>> In terms of web design, you shouldn't even think about this, just
>> focus on coding things correctly and let the screen reader take care
>> of when to enter interactive mode vs. browse mode.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 6/19/18, Jonathan Avila < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>> >> Although Semi-Auto and Manual are still available, I'm not sure why
>> anyone
>> >> would prefer them.
>> >
>> > If you have improperly coded pages you may need to use manual or semi.
>> For
>> > example, an improperly coded ARIA based drop down where you want to use
>> > arrow keys to move up and down in a custom list but JAWS kicks you out
>> > of
>> > forms mode when down arrow is pressed. I've also run into issues with
>> > getting stuck in edit fields in the past but that seems to be much
>> > improved.
>> >
>> > Jonathan
>> >
>> > Jonathan Avila
>> > Chief Accessibility Officer
>> > Level Access
>> > = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>> > 703.637.8957 office
>> >
>> > Visit us online:
>> > Website | Twitter | Facebook | LinkedIn | Blog
>> >
>> > Looking to boost your accessibility knowledge? Check out our free
>> webinars!
>> >
>> > The information contained in this transmission may be attorney
>> > privileged
>> > and/or confidential information intended for the use of the individual
>> > or
>> > entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended
>> > recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination,
>> distribution
>> > or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.
>> >
>> >
>> >
From: Tim Harshbarger
Date: Wed, Jun 20 2018 6:42AM
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Preferred mode for JAWS users?
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I also use manual.
However, I agree that it is better to test using the default settings.
I suspect most people (including screen reader users) don't alter the default settings of their apps. I suspect this is the case because most people only learn enough to use an app to do what they need to do.
From: mhysnm1964
Date: Fri, Jun 22 2018 12:35AM
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Preferred mode for JAWS users?
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Support Tim and others on this. Most users will use the defaults.